"Do You Have Any Weapons on You?" and COPS

Factual Questions
1

Bad boys, bad boys, whacha gonna do?
Whacha gonna do, when they come for you…

I have been watching a DVD series of the first fifteen seasons or so of COPS, presented to me by my dear son. The lesson I have gleaned is the same I got from Judge Judy and most dating shows - people are idiots.

However, I am noticing that in a lot of jurisdictions, the cop will ask the dumbass in question (before arrest, but that shouldn’t matter) “Do you have any weapons on you?” Sometimes this is before a search, sometimes not. Sometimes it is just before a pat down search.

I know from intense legal research (consisting of watching Dragnet, Adam-12, and Law and Order reruns, that I do not have to answer any question. I do not have to carry ID. All I ever need to say is my name, address, and birth date, so they can identify me.

I assume this applies to the “Do you have any weapons” question as well. IOW, Officer Friendly asks, and I respond “No answer” or say nothing. Is this the case?

Another question is this. In one episode, IIRC, the officer told the suspect to empty out his pockets. If the suspect failed to comply, and the search was not otherwise justified, is that legal?

TIA.

Regards,
Shodan

2

If the officer has a reasonable suspicion that you may be carrying a weapon or have a weapon in the passenger compartment of your vehicle, he may search your person or the passenger compartment of your vehicle in the interests of officer safety.

He can’t expand the search to locked containers or the vehicle’s cargo areas without your consent, and if they open your trunk without your permission then there is a likelihood anything they find could not be used against you in a criminal proceeding because it would be improperly obtained.

Now, if you can be charged with a crime for refusing to answer the weapon question I don’t know. I do know that in some states (Ohio for one) if you have a concealed carry license you as the license holder have an absolute requirement to immediately notify law enforcement the moment they stop you that you are a CCL holder and that you are carrying. Failure to do so can result in serious penalties, and in that scenario it is not a matter of responding to a question but an active duty you have incurred under Ohio statute as part of getting a concealed carry license and failure to live up to that duty carries significant criminal penalties.

3

Some states issue CCW permits with the condition that you must tell the police officer that you have a weapon on you. For those states you should not wait to inform the officer that you have one, it is mandated that you do so immediately.

In all other cases it is strongly advised that you tell the officer that you do, in fact, have a weapon if he asks you. If you don’t answer or you lie and he finds one you’re in for a long night. Pennsylvania (my state) does not have a duty to inform, but unless you like handcuffs and a gun pointed at your head you would do well to answer the officer’s question honestly and promptly.

4

If you have a weapon on you and they are injured by it during the search, then you can very probably be charged. Beyond that, in most cases if you do have a weapon, they are giving you a chance to turn it over before they find it and decide to charge you with carrying a concealed weapon.

5

Somewhat related to your question about “do you have any weapons?”

If you have a concealed carry permit in some states you are required to disclose if you’re armed at the initial contact. In other states, such as Missouri, you’re not obligated to inform unless asked.

Most concealed carry permit holders are not going to appear on Cops, so I admit it doesn’t really answer your question, but if you lie in answer to a direct question, couldn’t that be an additional charge? You don’t have to answer, but if you do…

6

Know Your Rights: What To Do If You’re Stopped By Police, Immigration Agents or the FBI, from the ACLU.

7

[QUOTE=GaryM]
if you lie in answer to a direct question, couldn’t that be an additional charge? You don’t have to answer, but if you do…
[/QUOTE]
That is my understanding as well - you don’t have to answer, but you can’t lie.

I doubt very much if the people I am watching have CC permits. I was thinking of it in terms of self-incrimination. If I am carrying a switchblade or something, if I answer truthfully to the weapons question, I am confessing to a crime. If I deny it, I am lying and interfering with justice or something. If I say nothing, and the officer cuts himself on the blade, I get charged with endangering an officer or something.

Obviously it would depend on the circumstances, but in many of the cases I saw it seemed a routine question, not based on any suspicion but (as they often mention) so the officer can feel non-threatened. I can certainly see the advantages of that - you never want to startle someone with a gun.

But just as I don’t have to offer any explanation of where I am going or what I am doing, even if what I am doing is illegal, I shouldn’t have to tell him that I am carrying an illegal weapon.

The scenario I am thinking of is this:

I am driving along, and the officer stops me for some minor thing like a tail light being out. He pulls me over, I show him my license and registration and proof of insurance.

Then, for whatever reason, he asks me the $64,000 question - “do you have any weapons or contraband on you?” I respond “No answer”, or say nothing at all. Is that illegal?

I am guessing that, without any other suspicion, my refusal cannot be made the basis for an arrest or search. IOW, if he didn’t have reason to search me before asking the question, he doesn’t have any reason after I refuse to answer.

IANAL, obviously, and I have never been arrested. I do occasionally carry a knife, especially during my evening walks (I use it to cut the ends off my cigar). I don’t carry ID - usually all I have is my cigar, lighter, knife, and keys. The blade of the knife is less than 3" long, but it is a rather wicked looking item. Part of the edge is serrated, and it is designed to be opened by pushing on a thumb lever on the blade and then snapping it open with a flick of the wrist. (My son gave me that too.) So it certainly could be considered a weapon. If a cop stops me and asks if I am carrying a weapon, I could in theory refuse to answer. Yes?

Thanks to all who have responded (so far).

Regards,
Shodan

8

I always carry a knife. More than one, normally, as a matter of fact.

But not for defensive purposes. I’ve done no training for that sort of thing and so would probably hurt myself if I tried to use a knife to fend off an aggressor.
Now, I don’t live in the USA anymore, but, if asked be a LEO if I were carrying a weapon, my answer would likely be: “No, but I do have a knife in my pocket, which I carry and use as a tool.”

So, I want to respond while still avoiding the loaded question about “weapons.”

9

Ignoring firearms since they been pretty well covered.

IANAL and all that.

First, I’d have a look at the law in your state about “weapons” in general. The knife laws of the 50 states (& D.C.) is a great place to start.
Let’s take a look at my state, Pennsylvania - Pa. C.S.A. 18.908,

Missing there are a couple of classics like nun-chucks and various other Asian martial arts “weapons”. The case law is very interesting,

and the most important lines,

Now on those occasions that I was carrying an actual weapon (a cheap ASP knock-off expandable baton) I was never asked*. :eek: But when carrying a knife my answer was always “No, but I do have a knife in my pocket.” Nathan S got it right, answering “Yes.” is an admission that you’re carrying a weapon not a knife and that changes everything. The second question oft’ is “Why are you carrying X?” and the answer should never be “For self-defense.” because, again, you’ve just admitted you’re carrying a weapon. You can get away with carrying almost anything if you can provide a reasonable, appropriate, lawful use for you to be in possession of it; knives for cutting the ends off cigars (or in my case making straw holes in coffee cups) baseball bats in the warm part of the year but you better have a mitt and a couple of balls too, hammers and box cutters along with a bunch of other tools, tire irons if you’re in a car, martial arts “weapons” along with your uniform, swords and other medieval weapons with garb and a canceled Renfaire ticket, you get the idea.

So, IMHO the correct answer “No weapons, but I do have a X in my Y.”

CMC fnord!
*I think I’ve told this story before but . . . I used to drive go-go dancers and bounce bachelor parties. Drunk guys and hot (often drunk) girls can make for a bad mix and too often the numbers where stack very much not in my favor. Guns and knives aren’t very flexible in their use, so I carried the baton and a really nice can of pepper spray.
So, one night we’re (my brother and two dancers) are driving back from a BP on the Garden State Parkway, neither of us had disarmed, and of course we get pulled over by the NJ State Police. It instantly turned into a “Terry stop” and we get frisked. My officer only checks my “strong side” and finds my pepper spray. Problem is, I’m left handed so the baton is tucked into my waistband on my strong side which he never checked!
Fortunately a day planner with bookings and more importantly a picture album of half naked dancers convinced the officers that we weren’t the “bad guys” they were really hoping we were. When it was clear everything was cool I asked what I should do if somebody missed something in the frisk . . . I really would have loved to hear the conversation they had after the got back in the car.
In the end they took all of our “toys” threw them in our trunk, with a warning that my pepper spray was over the legal size and my baton could make a real mess if I ever had to use it, and let us go on our way!

In hindsight I’m still not sure whether it’s better to tell the cop he royally fucked up a routine pat down or wait until I’m asked to “assume the position” to tell him.

10

That doesn’t contain any information relevant to the issue, does it?

The practice the OP asks about stems from the Supreme Court case Terry v Ohio, and what has come to be known as a Terry stop. If, during a stop, the officer has reason to believe you might have a weapon, he can legally conduct a frisk.

There are various state laws which determine whether contraband discovered during such a search is admissible as evidence. In addition, as others have stated, some states require you to acknowledge to a police officer that you are carrying a weapon that is legal to carry.

11

Has anyone told the ACLU about the DEA and Secret Service yet? :smiley:

12

My money says that if you decline to give a yes or no answer, the cop will frisk you if he feels like it, and, if it should go to court, he will tell the judge that you were being evasive, or suspicious, or combative, and you would end up having been searched legally.

hh

13

I have utilized the ‘no answer (did not speak)’ successfully when asked if I had been drinking in the past.

14

The ACLU doesn’t really shiv a git when it comes to Civil Rights violations, unless it’s a big, glam case that will make the news.

HOWEVER, CONTACTING the ACLU and asking for help DOES get you put on their mailing list, and you’ll get solicitations to donate.
~VOW

15

If you say NO and are lying, and later are caught with them, through a legal search, it can be a crime? I base that on at least from a federal law standpoint, I have not researched it at any state level. Maybe one of the lawyers would know. This is known as the “Excuplatory No” doctine. Until the SC laid it to rest, the courts were confused on whether lying to a federal officer when you said “no I did not commit a crime”, when you actually did, was a seperate crime in and of itself. The NO was a way of asserting your 5th AM right to remain silent. The SC said no to this.

If you stand mute, then that is not a so called “Adoptive admission” to guilt. If you answer NO, when it is yes, on a state level, to be a crime, that would take some research.

In Ohio v. Robinette, which was remanded back from the US SC and a new Syllabus was added, the OSC, citing Florida v. Royer, USSC, stated that is was a deminimus intrusion or such on an already detained motorist if the officer asks if the car contains contraband, as a motor vehicle stop must last no longer than the original purpose of the stop. So asking is permitted, and it is not a further detention, and need not be based on any suspicion.

16

I have asked the question in the OP to many people. It was never to get someone to incriminate themselves. It has always been in a situation in which I am searching or patting them down anyways and will find out for myself. I always ask in hopes that the person is truthful before I hurt myself on whatever they have whether it be needles or an edged weapon. I did have one woman tell me I better put on gloves because she was carrying her vibrator in her pocket. I appreciated the honesty.

17

I’ve wondered about this lately, since I bought and started carrying a canister of dog repellent since people in my neighbourhood are a bit…lax about keeping their dogs under control. I think if I was ever stopped by a police officer while I was carrying it, I would volunteer that I have a can of dog repellent on me - I don’t see any benefit to being coy about it.

18

Suppose I respond “I understand that, officer. Nonetheless, I do not choose to answer any questions at this time.”

I’m not going to resist if you go ahead and reach into my pocket anyway. But suppose you cut yourself on the knife that I sometimes carry. If the knife is otherwise legal (the blade is less than three inches long), I don’t think I should be charged with anything - how can I be held responsible for an injury consequent to a search to which I never consented?

Or even suppose I am carrying a syringe full of heroin or somesuch. You ask me if I am carrying, I refuse to answer. You go ahead and pat me down, and stick yourself on the needle and (God forbid) get hepatitis or AIDS. Certainly I could be charged with illegal possession of drugs and paraphernalia, but have I done anything illegal because you got stuck?

On a related note, I thought that contraband found during a pat down could only be admitted as evidence if it might be a weapon, and was therefore OK for the officer to go into the pocket or whatever even without consent. Thus if you pat me down and feel a hard pointed object, you can pull it out without my consent and see that it is a syringe, and bust me for that. If you feel a packet full of powder, ask me what it is, I refuse to say, you cannot pull it out and charge me with possession of heroin because a packet of powder is not likely to be a weapon and therefore the officer would need probable cause for a search.

ETA - all this is not intended to seem like it is aimed at you, or accusatory toward the police at all, and I hope it doesn’t come across that way.
Regards,
Shodan

19

Like I said I hope they are truthful before I possibly hurt myself. No they can not be charged if I accidentally get hurt. And they are under no obligation to talk. I make it very clear that I am checking regardless of what they say. Of course I would only be conversational with some one who is generally cooperative to begin with.

For the second part, if it a search due to an arrest everything is coming out of the pockets. Anything found is admissible unless the entire reason for the arrest is thrown out (fruits of the poisonous tree, more complicated than that good faith exceptions and all). During a terry pat down an officer is still allowed to use their common sense and experience to determine if they find something that isn’t a weapon. If it is not reasonable to expect that they could have identified an object during a pat down or if it was found somewhere that a weapon would not be found then it would be thrown out.

20

Thanks for your response.

Regards,
Shodan