First, my van blew a sparkplug. The dealership fixed it, but then blue smoke started coming from the muffler and it was running really rough. I took it back, and they told me it now needs a new engine. the piston is pretty tore up. They want $6400 for a new engine which is just silly for a van with 150k on it. but…do I have any recourse? the first repair obviously precipitated the oil burning problem. It just doesn’t seem right that I should have to pay for this. the van never used a drop of oil before the first repair.
The dealer tried to tell me that after the sparkplug blew and I drove to the repair shop, the damage happened. but…seriously…is that just an attempt to get out from under this?
Dealers are very high priced for car repairs. Ask around and find a qualified independent mechanic. The obvious alternatives (if the engine can’t be fixed) to a new engine is a used engine (from a junkyard) or rebuilt engine–as well as getting a different vehicle.
Is fixing an engine with this problem an option? can’t you just replace the piston?
If the oil burning started after the spark plug repair, it could be (1) coincidental or (2) a result of the repair.
Let’s go with #2. They probably had to insert a helicoil or something like to repair the threads. This requires a little machining to insert the helicoil. If done improperly, metal shavings could have gotten into the cylinder. This could likely scratch up the cylinder walls and/or messed up the piston rings causing the oil burning. A simple compression test might tell if the cylinder with the plug repair is low on compression. If it is and the others aren’t well, you might have a point. But still it’s going to be tough to prove especially with 150K miles.
Also just changing a piston isn’t going to help if the cylinder wall is scratched up. At the least it will need to be bored out to clean up the scratches. Then the piston will need oversized rings.
At 150K miles you have some options.
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Just drive it and put in oil frequently. Of course this might make you the laughingstock of your friends, family, and coworkers if it’s like spraying for mosquitoes behind you. Plus some places emmission laws might come down hard.
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Fix the problem cylinder/piston. All the other cylinders would be old.
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Get a rebuilt short or long block so the entire engine is OK. But then how’s the transmission and the rest of the van?
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Get a used engine from a junk yard. That’s a shaky roll of the dice.
I appreciate the advice. I think I am going to cut my losses, drive it to a parts yard, and start looking for another. I feel like I got kicked in the stomach tho. I just spent over $600 on that van, and I just filled up the gas tank for another $100. crud. times like these make me want to be a socialist and go beg the govt for money.
Out of curiosity, what kind of van is it?
I would strongly suggest at least calling around to some independent shops and seeing what it would cost to get a used engine in there. A used engine from a reputable recycler with a compression test isn’t that bad of a bet these days. Depending on what kind of van it is, it may only be $1000 or so installed, which (if the van’s in otherwise good shape) is probably a better bet than a new-to-you $1000 van.
Greasy…that’s tempting but then I have the risk of a used engine in my van and possibly even more cost. no? Everything else about the van is in great shape. I could weep to think how much money I am losing on this deal. The van is a 98 Ford E-150. 5.4 liter V8.
If I had only tightened the spark plugs…
What do you guys think is the best way to cut my losses? should I put this on Craigslist and see if anyone wants the parts? or just take it to a parts yard?
Well, the thing is that if you’re just going to go out and buy another cheap used van, it’s going to have a used engine in it too, right? Everything else on your van is a (relatively) known commodity, whereas everything is suspect on a new-to-you one.
Looking at the used engine prices at www.car-part.com, it looks like you can get a roughly equivalent or even a little lower mileage used engine for about $800 (which if that’s the internet price means a shop may be able to get it for significantly less). I’d guess with labor it’d probably be around $1500 or so, which sucks, but you’ll end up with a better vehicle than buying a $1500 used van. (although local labor prices vary and with used engines shipping can be pricey if you can’t find a local one). If you don’t really need a big van or wanted to trade up anyways, it might make more sense to cut your losses though.
You can try selling the van for parts on CL, but I doubt you’ll get much more than the scrap metal value which is probably a couple hundred bucks. Unless it’s something cool like a camper, there’s probably not going to be a whole lot of interest.
Moderator Action
This is more of an advice question than a factual/technical question.
Moving thread from General Questions to In My Humble Opinion.
Good point now that you put it like that. I am going to give this some thought.
I also have an E-150. The good thing is there are millions of them out there. A good used engine should be easy to find. If you look into a used van instead you might want to get a E-250 or 350 if you carry a lot of weight. I know my tools and rack weight close to a ton just by them selves. And the glass I carry around aint light either.
I second the advice to go to a reputable independent shop. A compression test is a must! Without that you are just guessing as to what is wrong. Dealers tend to be parts replacers. Few of them do much diagnostic work. One of their refrains seems to be “replace the engine”. I hear it all of the time when a simple head gasket or a valve job would work for another 50K miles.
IME, a used engine from the wrecking yard is a good bet. If the rest of the rig is in good shape, I would look hard at that option. If however, your transmission is starting to shift funny or the rear axle howls like a banshee, then a new rig may be in order.
Please make an INFORMED decision. Do not take the dealers diagnosis as the absolute, for sure, golden truth. They have been wrong before. If the independent garage agrees with the dealer, then you can be fairly sure that you need a new-to-you engine.
IHTH, 48.
Dont buy fords anymore, lesson learned.
Ford commercial vehicles are very reliable. I have been driving Econoline vans for 20 years. There’s a reason they out number all other commercial vans on the road.
I would just like to note for the record that there is no guarantee that the independent shop will do any diagnostic work either.
If I had a dollar for every incorrect diagnostic I have seen from an independent shop, I’m not going to say I could retire but I could take a nice vacation.
One advantage the dealer has is that they have probably seen this exact scenario a couple of dozen times before. Spark plug failures on 5.4s (and I think the 4.6) are legendary. How many has the independent shop seen? One? Two?
One thing the OP overlooked is that the damage could have occurred when the plug blew, and not as a result of the repair.
I don’t see how a spark plug blowing OUT of the engine could have caused something to get lodged in the cylinder??
Simple. Not every piece of the plug blew out the hole.
How long had those plugs been in the engine?