What to expect from the Geek Squad or other (need home theater "education")

In My Humble Opinion
1

We just upgraded everything to HD. New Plasma 1080i, Blu-Ray DVD, new receiver with HDMI inputs. New cables (cheap cables, see here.)

After several hours of cursing and elevated blood pressure, I’ve got a basic working setup with the receiver/DVD player/surround sound.

This mother effing receiver is like trying to get the space shuttle up and running. (it’s a Denon—it was cheap) The manual reads like a masters-level engineering textbook—it makes way too many presumptions that I know what the hell it’s referring to. Now, before you paint that “woman-trying-to-do-a-man’s-job” picture of me, know that I installed the home theater on our last non-HD TV—wiring and all, and I also installed our last garbage disposal—so I’m no ninny!:smiley:

This is what I need: a person to come into my house, look at my setup, tell me what all the other crap is that I don’t have my receiver set on (Dolby II, DTS Neo:6, DTS, Surround, Ext. In), tell me if there’s something better I should be choosing, tell me why, if this HDMI cable is supposed to be all-in-one, do I still have to use the red/white cable to get sound from the DVD player, why the display says analog and not digital, what all that crap means on the display—

—you know: answer all the questions I have and help me to better understand this crap so that I don’t have to be afraid to touch the remote control.

Is this something that the Geek Squad people can do for me? I read their service listing on their site and it sounds like there are several things about which they’re “hands-off” (they have disclaimers like “this service does not include speaker and/or receiver setup” on several of their surround sound service listings). Since it’s midnight here and all the geeks are in bed (or playing WoW or whatever geeks do), what has been your experience with the Geek Squad, and can they help with my rather vague complicated-receiver-education request?

2

There are probably dozens of people in your area who do home theater installation work, check out the phone book, ask if they can do a no obligation look see.

3

I’ve already got a few local numbers written down. It’s funny—there are 4 listings in the (big) yellow pages, and 7 different listings each in about 5 different google search results I’ve found. It’s too bad that there doesn’t seem to be a centralized business listing anymore, now that we have The World Wide Webs. I feel like I could be missing that great guy that’s right up the street or something.

And now that I realize Geek Squad is part of Best Buy, I think I’m definitely not going to call them…

4

Unsquare Dude works for Geek Squad. Their operation is inside the store because Best Buy bought out the company. They are not sales monkeys who work on the floor and have nothing to do with what goes on there. They are usually smarter and more experienced than the people who try to sell you car stereos. You can go in and talk to some of the Agents and they can answer some of your questions, but try to go when things aren’t busy. Otherwise they may have to cut you off quickly.

However, Geek Squad doesn’t do home theater installations. They will give you advice, if they can, but for installations they have a department in TV/Media. Depends on the store, but ours (Carbondale) does nice work. I’ve seen pictures of their stuff, and they’re not idiots. If GS can’t answer your questions, wander over and corner one of those kids.

It’s different with every store, though. I really dislike people holding a grudge against Best Buy because they have a shit store in the area. I used to do the same thing when I lived near Cape Girardeau, MO. That Best Buy was the only one I had experience with, and it’s horrible. Everyone who works there is stupid, but you’ll never find out, because everyone who works there is nowhere to be found. The Carbondale store, however, is awesome. It’s why Unsquare Dude ended up getting a job there.

5

Geek Squad (the Best Buy division) took over home theatre installations a few years ago and rebranded the home theatre guys. Its a different set of guys that fix computers, but they are now Geek Squad employees. They did ours, which was ok.

6

I realized after I said it that I was using a big brush, but sadly lots of BS and little real info is all I usually get from people at Best Buy, Radio Shack, and the like. I was assuming that the Geek Squad people probably got “infected” with it too, by proxy. Maybe I’m wrong…

7

Don’t feel bad - Denon has that reputation :). Their manuals seem to be universally piss-poor and experienced A/V geeks talk about “spending an afternoon” to set them up. However the quality of their equipment seems pretty decent relative to the price. In particular they have a reputation for being more “musical” than some compeititors at the same price point.

I have a Denon 988 ( also recently acquired after I decided my old integrated amp was not up to the job ), but I had the luxury of only worrying about two speakers which saves a great deal of time. Even so I couldn’t sort out how to change the “speaker distance” on the first go through. I left it alone in the end because it was pretty close at default anyway and I decided I wanted to avoid the frustration :D.

8

Why not simply use the SDMB to answer your questions? Head over to GQ and provide your equipment model numbers, how you currently have them connected, and then ask your questions?

For example, the display says “analog” because you used the red/white RCA cable to connect the audio of the DVD player to the receiver. The HDMI cable is capable of handling both video and audio, digitally, and my guess is that the receiver isn’t configured properly to pick up the digital audio from the DVD player.

As for the other settings, picking the “right” choice in some cases is objective, in others, it is subjective. But given the model numbers, it is pretty trivial for geeks here at SDMB to find the manuals online and help answer your questions (and even debate the merits of the subjective choices).

Just a thought…

9

I guess, sheepishly, because I fully expect to get a GIYF (google is your friend) reply and then I’ll feel like an a-hole for asking! :o

I actually learn more, anyway, by having an “interactive” conversation with someone, so I think I need someone in front of me for when I have my “Well, if A happens, then why does B do what it does?” questions. I’d hate to take up some Doper’s whole afternoon with my confusion! :smiley:

Furthermore, it has been my experience that I have some kind of “thread-killing” disease. When I post, threads seems to sink like stones! :smiley: :smiley:

10

IMHO, it is worth a try.

A downside of hiring a geek is that if they don’t know, they can make an answer and explain it away with gobbledy gook. SDMB is far better at policing the quality of the answers.

And there is no reason to feel guilty in consuming a doper’s time - you aren’t compelling them to post.

If your “thread-killing” disease flares up - nothing lost. If you would at least post the model of the Denon receiver, I could try to help you here. But be warned - football starts in less than a half hour, and not as many geeks troll IMHO as GQ.

11

It’s a Denon AVR-1609. I just got off the phone with a local guy who I may be able to get here this morning for some face time. Go watch football- I appreciate your willingness to help, but if this guy doesn’t get me squared away (he sells/installs/repairs Denons as a a matter of extreme luck!), then I may PM you that I’ve started the “Help me figure out my Denon AVR-1609 receiver” thread in GQ later today/tonight! :smiley:

12

So perhaps you have already learned these things:

  • Your receiver doesn’t have the ability to process audio that comes in on an HDMI cable.
  • It also doesn’t have the ability to output a video signal onto an HDMI cable from any input besides an HDMI input

Therefore, that kinda defeats the primary purpose of an A/V receiver. You can “make do” if you so choose, but you may want to consider upgrading to a better model. If it is within your budget, getting something that “up-converts” to HD (over the HDMI port) would be beneficial. At minimum, it would be nice if it could at least decode the audio coming in on an HDMI cable.

To “make do”, you will want to replace the RCA cable connection (red/white connectors) between the BluRay player and the receiver - that connection is analog, and is really only useful for stereo input. To take advantage of the true surround sound from BDs or DVDs, you will want either a digital audio coaxial cable (single RCA connectors colored orange) or an optical audio cable. There is no substantive quality difference, and neither should cost more than $10.

Frankly, you now have to ask yourself if it is even useful to have the video signal passed through the receiver. You can connect the BluRay to the receiver with an HDMI cable (for video only), and then connect the receiver to the TV with another HDMI cable. But I’m not sure I see much benefit, as you could also just connect the BluRay player to the TV directly (for video, you would still run the audio to the receiver). You save one HDMI cable that way, and the receiver isn’t adding any value (to that video connection) anyway. The only potential benefit may be the number of remote button pushes it takes to switch from BluRay to standard cable/satellite.

But I doubt it makes any difference. But before I explain that, I need to know what type of connections are avaiable to you for connecting your cable/satellite to the A/V receiver. If you need more help here, also let me know the number of speakers you have, and whether you will use a standard TV antenna to pick up HD broadcast TV.

As to your question about all the different surround modes, it is really a matter of personal preference. Those modes are all about converting an analog stereo input (like radio, iPod, or any component connected with those red/white RCA cables) into a synthethic surround sound. The simplest choice is “Direct”, where stereo signals are simply output onto the left and right front speakers. Any other choice would simply be because you thought it sounded better.

When you have a digital source (such as the BluRay, connected with a digital audio cable), the receiver will automatically switch to the “right” mode for you.

13

Most receivers have settings for assigning the digital inputs to the various component and HDMI inputs. In this case, the HDMI audio is probably being treated like another digital audio input. I think you’ll find it listed along with the “optical” and “coax” inputs in the audio setup section.

I do this for a living, but only in Chicago and Kansas City,

14

I checked the manual. Page 24. HDMI1 and HDMI2 (the audio from each) can be assigned to other sources, DVD/HDP, TV/CBL, VCR, V.AUX or OFF. If HDMI1 is assigned to DVD/HDP that means it will take the digital audio from that source. But if it’s not assigned to the same input, it will default to the analog source. It will look for digital ones first, but go analog if there is no other choice.

One other thing: The DVD or Blue-Ray player may not be set up to output digital audio via HDMI. It might be routing it’s digital audio out a SP/DIF (optical or co-ax) or out via multiple analog channels.

15

gaffa, in the manual, see the “Note” box on page 10 and repeated on page 11. To confirm, read about any review of this particular model. This model won’t process audio input from the HDMI port.

Your point about configuring the BluRay to output audio to the match the cable remains valid.

16

I wouldn’t mix them up if they’d just wear the same shirts! :stuck_out_tongue: The home theater guys here still wear the blue polo.

17

Yes, I’ve learned this (and a bunch of other stuff) today!

Here’s what I have:
Panasonic TH-50PZ85U, the Denon 1609, a Blu-Ray DVD player, a Verizon FiOS HD box, 3 HDMI cables, 2 optical cables, surround sound speakers (FL&R, C, SL&R, SW).

Before I get into the latest problem (and I already think I fear your answer), the other receiver we had before (still have) is an RCA STAV-4180, and now that I know so much about inputs/outputs, I see it has an optical, a coax and then all other red/white(yel?) inputs/outputs, plus speaker connectors. Because it didn’t have HDMI input we thought it was useless with an HDTV, and I would bet you dollars to donuts that we didn’t need to spend the $250 on the Denon, am I right? What’s the benefit of having this Denon over the 5-year-old RCA? I see that the Denon has Sirius capability, which I might need to make use of after my circa-2002 boombox breaks (it’s on its way). Other than that?

If I were to do the Blu-Ray to TV for video/receiver to TV for audio connection you mentioned above, would the RCA STAV-4180 give the same Blu-Ray quality digital audio? If so, with what kind of connection?

OK- back to the Denon: Home theater guy stops by on his way out of town for a free consult- he tells me what you did above re the Denon: I need an optical or coax for the audio. My homework until he comes back for the full consult was to buy 2 opticals: one for the DVD player, one for the HD Verizon FiOS box. Check. He says to plug the DVD into HDMI 2 (TV/CBL) and the optical into Optical 1 (TV) to achieve digital surround audio with the DVD player as a quick solution until he can come back and manually change some settings around so that I can make use of the HDMI 1 (DVD) slot as it should be.

So I did that. Video, but no surround audio at all.

What am I doing wrong? I checked the inputs and think I have everything assigned correctly, the little red light is on on the optical cable, the display says “digital” now instead of analog, but there’s probably something somewhere that’s not set right.

In a way, I don’t want to have to return this Denon, because this home theater guy deals with Denons every day, however, this go**amn Denon is the reason I’ve called this guy in the first place (the RCA manual seems like it could be easier to figure out, but don’t quote me on that…). I guess I can see one downside to the DVD to TV/receiver to speakers scenario: wouldn’t i have to set the TV to DVD, then set the receiver to DVD, therefore adding more potentially confusing steps to the process, whereas if I set the whole receiver up for audio and visual to the TV, then I’d only have to set the receiver to DVD and I’m done?

I’m at the proverbial crossroads. Where to turn?

18

Coming back to say manthous suggests we should just keep the Denon and give the RCA to our nephew, unless the RCA is so far superior in some way to the Denon (we have no idea) that this would be foolish.

19

Opps, missed that. Wow, what a poorly written manual…and mediocre design. My cheap-ass CostCo “Home Theater in a Box” $499 with speakers system has that feature.

Cool.

20

I don’t think the Denon provides $250 of value to you. I would suggest you either upgrade now (return it, and buy something else, though it would be more expensive). If you are not ready to do that, I would still recommend returning it and “make do” with the RCA until you can easily afford a solid replacement.

In some ways, the RCA is superior to the Denon, and the Denon doesn’t meet the primary purpose of why you bought it anyway. The RCA should be sufficient until you are ready for a better receiver.

One advantage of the the Denon is that it supports 7.1 surround. But it appears you only are looking to support 5.1 at this time anyway. If the Denon is supporting 5.1 surround, then it has the option to power the last two speaker jacks as a separate zone (two speakers, in another room, that can listen to a different source at the same time). It a cool feature for such a low end system, but it isn’t clear if it is a useful feature to you and your family.

In the OP, you mention that you have a new Plasma 1080i. You actually have a new Plasma 1080p (even better). Nice set. Combined with FiOS HD and BluRay, it is a top of the line home theater experience. The Denon does not match the same class as the rest of the gear.

You can run the video from the BluRay and the FiOS box with HDMI cables to the Plasma, but then you have to switch the video inputs on the TV to change the signal, and change the input selectors on the receiver. More complicated, and not as elegant, but it would work. You might even be able to program a universal remote to do those tasks with the press of one button.

But a good A/V receiver (with HDMI switching) would act as a “hub” for your system. It would only have one HDMI cable out from the receiver into the TV (the TV input select function would not be needed - everything would come through the one cable). Higher end systems will even convert analog sources (like a VCR) or a DVD player into an HD-formatted signal, passing it over the same HDMI cable, allowing you to aggregate other devices as well.

I’m a bit confused by his temporary solution here, as I can’t see any difference between HDMI-1 and HDMI-2 on your system. My recommendation would be to plug the BluRay HDMI cable into HDMI-1 (for video only), make the BluRay audio connection with one optical cable to Optical-1. Then use the same two cable solution to connect the FiOS box to the receiver on HDMI-2 and Optical-2. Then run an HDMI cable from the monitor out to the TV.

Frankly, either should work, but my solution takes advantage of the default input assignments, and his requires more configuration on the Denon.

But, as you say, you’ve done that configuration work, you get a “digital” indicator, but still no sound. My only guess at this point is what gaffa mentioned. It is likely that the BluRay player, by default, is sending the audio signal out the HDMI port. You will also need to go into the BluRay setup function, and tell it to send the audio out via the optical connector.