What was the big deal about "Angela's Ashes" anyway?

Cafe Society
1

When the book “Angela’s Ashes” came out it was a big deal and Oprah gushed over it and it sold ten million zillion copies. And then the movie came out and it got some gushing too. I know more people than I can count who talked about what a moving book it was.

Well, I skimmed through it and I’ve managed to stomach parts of the movie, and, um… hasn’t this been done before?

  • He’s Irish
  • He’s poor
  • Dad’s a drunk
  • Everything is dirty and wet
  • The Church blah blah blah
  • English are bad
  • Catholics and Protestants don’t get along in Ireland

I mean, I’m sorry Frank had a crummy childhood, but this is sort of an old story, isn’t it? I kind of missed what made this a sensation. What was the big deal?

2

The big deal was the book, which was the old misery-to-happiness story of personal conquest of bad circumstances. AFAIK, the film didn’t cut the mustard (though I haven’t seen it).

I enjoyed the book because a) it was an eye-opener to what poverty is actually like. The only thing I’ve read that was comparable was City of Joy (the book, not the sucky movie). b) It was written with humour and a lack of self-pity. That’s about it really.

The sequel’s good, too.

3

Dunno, it looked as grim as fuck to me. I had no desire to see it.

To be honest, I usually avoid like the plague any books that win top awards.

4

Enjoyed AA - that the kid remained a kid through all the adversity. And ended on an up note. Not lifechanging - but a pleasant read.

The sequel was disappointing, tho, when you realize the spunky kid made it through all that, and just ended up a mediocre bastard.

5

Of course it’s been done before. Everything’s been done before. The basic plot of Hamlet was an ancient cliche long before Shakespeare got a hold of it. People react to works of art based not on the basis of the novelty of the premise (because the premise is almost never new,) but on how well the artist carried out the premise.

What people found moving about Angela’s Ashes was the combination of humor and pathos. That’s a potent combination, if done right.

6

I quite enjoyed the book too, although it was very controversial in Limerick, where it was mainly set. Many locals, including Richard Harris (FWIW), felt that McCourt had exaggerated the deprivation he experienced and overstated the mean-spiritedness of Limerick folk. An Irish radio show used to do some excellent parodies of McCourt’s memoirs basically portraying him as a moany old shite. Good read but it must have been a slow year for the Pulitzer Prize.

It’s been a few years since I read it but I don’t remember this getting an airing in the book.

7

“…and all the terrible things the English did” etc. is one of the things that is repeated to Frank thoughout the book.

Don’t remember the Catholic/Protestant conflict appearing too much.

8

The book really resonated for Mr. S because he grew up in similar conditions (not quite as bad, but close – very poor, drunken dad). McCourt also has a very distinctive writing style – which people seem to either love or hate, IMO. We both enjoyed it.

9

You’re right of course. What I really meant was that, unlike the other items on the list, McCourt isn’t moaning about the English. He’s taking a pop at those who claim that all the woes of Ireland are the fault of the Brits. Ditto for the Prods.

10

Since I’m of Irish descent (all four grandparents were born there), my mother-in-law bough “Angela’s Ashes” for me, assuming I’d enjoy it.

It wasn’t as horrible as I feared (more on why I expected the worst later), but I wasn’t highly impressed, either. It was occasionally funny, occasionally touching, but usually dull and vaguely annoying.

Why I expected the worst: I knew almost nothing of Frank McCourt, but having grown up in New York, I knew of his repulsive brother Malachy. Malachy McCourt wasn’t just a fat, stupid, embarrassing, drunken Irishman, he was a PROFESSIONAL fat, stupid, embarrassing drunken Irishman! He made his living by going appearances on TV and radio (he had his own radio talk show for many years), and telling supposedly hilarious stories of his drunken escapades (the brawls he got into, the women he chased, etc.) and his deprived childhood. Most Irish New Yorkers found him far less amusing than he found himself.

Luckily, Frank McCourt isn’t the buffoon his brother is. He’s more intelligent, more thoughtful, a bit sadder and wiser. But he shares several of Malachy’s more irritating traits- most notably, he blames all the wrong people and institutions for his family’s travails.

Look, Ireland was a poor country in the 1930s. Times were hard, and even a man who was steadily employed couldn’t provide for his family as well as he’d have liked. So, living in Limerick in the 1930s, the McCourts were almost bound to be poor, and to live humbly.

BUT… (and this is a huge but!), they didn’t have to live in squalor, and they didn’t have to go hungry. That they DID live in squalor and that they DID go hungry often is tragic, but it’s NOT the fault of Ireland and it’s NOT the fault of the Catholic Church. The abject misery of the McCourt family was the fault of one man alone: their drunken, worthless bum of a father!

And yet, in the book and (especially!) the film versions of “Angela’s Ashes,” Frank’s dad is presented as a lovable rogue whose drunkenness, stupidity, selfishness and irresponsibility were charming quirks.

Even after 60+ years, Frank McCourt is angry and bitter about his impoverished childhood, and understandably so… yet, he reserves almost all his bitterness for Ireland (the only thing he really seems to blame his father for was taking them from New York back to Ireland in the first place) and the Catholic Church.
To hear McCourt tell it, you’d think priests were coming over every night, holding his father down, and pouring beer down his throat.

As poor as Ireland was in the 1930s, there WAS work to be found. Malachy McCourt Senior FOUND decent paying jobs regularly, but kept losing them because of his own irresponsibility. During World War 2, loads of Irishmen went to England and found high-paying factory jobs, dutifully sending their pay home to their families in Ireland. Malachy McCourt Sr. did the same, for a little while, but eventually chose booze over his family again.

After a while, the tale gets old.

  1. We’re poor and hungry. It’s all the Church’s fault!
  2. Yay, Dad has a job! Maybe now we can eat!
  3. Uh oh, Dad spent his paycheck on booze, and got fired.
  4. Go back to step 1.

A decent story, decent told, but not gripping.

11

It’s not a major point of conflict in the book, but it’s usually a convenient reason for Frank’s Catholic family to hate his father’s Protestant family from Northern Ireland. In the book, young Frank is often said by family members and friends to look like a Protestant from the North. I seem to remember a particularly humorous comment by his grandmother about his “Northern hair” that wouldn’t stay down.

Wow. Huh? Did you read the same book as I did? The father is a complex character. At one point Frank muses that his father has three different personalities - a hopeless asshole who cares more for “the drink” that whether his own family lives or dies, a hard worker (when sober), and a loving father. Unfortunately, the first personality seemed to ruin every good thing the other two did.

The main problem McCourt seemed to have about the church was that they never let him forget how poor he was. They helped the family when they were in dire straits, but it was in a very condescending way. Recall the thoroughly humiliating times his mother had at the St. Vincent de Paul Society.

Also remember that the story actually begins in New York City, but that the father is unable to hold down a job for more than a few days, due to his alcoholism. The family is forced to move back to Ireland and Frank paints this as entirely the fault of his father, as it is. The father repeats the same stunt over and over again upon their return to Limmerick, and Frank continuously calls him on them in print.

Not even a little while. Dad sent exactly one check home. This is clearly stated in the book. The family is devastated by it.

It’s also shown in the book that most of Limmerick’s other residents, while still poor, were far better off than the McCourts. The few that weren’t tended to have fathers like Frank’s.

I really don’t see how you could read this book and think McCourt was blaming everything on the church. The book I read rightly shifted most of the blame on that drunken ass of a father. While reading it, I wanted to jump right into that book and wring his damn neck!

12

Hmmm. I just finished reading the book for the first time late last week (I’d seen the movie before, though) and this doesn’t ring any bells with me. Are you sure it’s not something he said in 'Tis?

13

Probably it’s a question of YMMV, but I liked just because it wasn’t that. He didn’t end up rich and famous (well, now he is), he didn’t get to score with all the girls. He just grew up to be a regular guy. I don’t need any more rags-to-riches stories, thank you.

So, you didn’t read A monk swimming, then?

A book I found to be very readable.

14

I have to ask a stupid question-who is Angela?

15

Angela is Frank’s mother.

Angela’s Ashes was a story well told, both the unhappy parts and the funny bits. I defy anyone to read the “I’ve got God in my backyard!” portion without laughing out loud.

16

Not a dumb question- Angela is Frank McCourt’s long-suffering mother.

As for her ashes… well, the book itself never explains what that’s about. Or rather, Frank McCourt initially wrote a VERY long autobiography entitled “Angela’s Ashes,” and it covered his entire life. The story of Angela’ s ashes was an amusing anecdote from that lengthy manuscript. However, his editor told him the manuscript was too long, and that the book should end when he left Ireland and came to America. So, while the novel kept the title “Angela’s Ashes,” readers never found out what the title meant.

In the follow-up novel, “Tis,” we get the explanation. Years later, Frank and almost his entire extended family were living in New York. When mother Angela died, she was cremated, and her ashes were put in an urn. Frank and Malachy decided to go bar hopping, and carried the urn around to each bar they hit. At the end of the night, they suddenly realized they’d misplaced the urn somewhere, and had to retrace their steps, going back to every bar they’d been at, trying to find Angela’s ashes.

17

Ah, my apologies. 'Tis something from “'Tis.” Well, if he doesn’t come out and say it in the first book, the impression is made pretty clearly.

18

If my memory serves me correctly, 'Tis ends with Frank scattering Angela’s (a)shes (over a river?). 'Tis ends with the a sentence incorporating “Angela’s ashes” while the last word of Angela’s Ashes is “'Tis”. Nicely done, I thought.

IIRC, that is. :slight_smile:

FWIW, I enjoyed both books. McCourt struck a fine balance between gritty realism and humour, which is very appealing to the average reader.

19

I don’t have much more to add, but I really thought it was a wonderful book. AA and 'Tis as well.

Maybe it’s an old story (as the OP states), but it is an old story I hadn’t taken the time to read before.

20

I just picked up a copy.
Yep, Frank’s dad was a complete idiot-always raving about how “he did his bit for Ireland”.
Yet, when he tried to claim a pension (based on his service to the IRA in the rebellion)-there was NO record that he had served in any capacity. He (the father) seemed to be a complete drain upon the family-although divorce was’nt available to his mother.
The other strange thing was the reception of the family by the grandmother (Angela’s mother) she did almost nothing to help the family-and never missed an opportunity to remind Angela what a bum she had married.
The other thing that got me was the extreme passivity of the father-why didn’t he fix the leak (that turned their ground flor into a lake when it rained)? He could have invested some time in fishing (the river was full of fish).
But I guess that would have cut into his drinking time.
The real hero was his mother-how she put up with this (for 15+ years) is beyond me.