right now I’m reading the book and its really pissing me off…I’ve had to put it down a few times I was so mad…I’m not sure who I’m more mad at…the Mom or the Dad…grrrrr
Jayburner,
this is the first thread of yours that I’m going to respond to because it is actually valid, no mention of your dick or bra sizes or anything, well done.
Why would you be mad at the mother? the father is the one who lets the family down, while the mother struggled to provide for them. she even slept with her own cousin for her family. Not that the act is admirable, but the intention is.
Anyway, the story didnt annoy me, Frank McCourt did. I hate his writing style. It annoyed me to try and read it. I didnt even think that the story was even that good.
I’m refusing to even read 'tis as McCourt is such an asshole
well, at least one person wants to meet me…
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Cheers!!
I’ll admit the father was a lousy drunk, just like I was last night…but the mother was totally ignorant about the childrens health…I hold her responsible for the death of her children…Frank McCourt’s writing style is very simplistic …but he never professed to being a writer…
What annoyed me about it was that I put so much energy into the book, I really felt sorry for them all and him, UNTIL I saw a program about some of his friends from youth who were implying that not all of it was strictly true to life.
Looking at it as a book it certainly evoked a lot of emotion, but I am not impressed with Frank McCourt the person
“Expecting the world to treat you fairly because you are a good person is like expecting a bull not to attack you because you are a vegetarian.” Dennis Wholey
I’m with you, Jay. At the beginning of the book through the middle, the father infuriated me, and I felt bad for the mother. By the end, however, the mother was driving me nuts by putting up with the father–and of all things, continuing to have sex with him, not to mention things done later (don’t know where you are in the book, so I don’t want to spoil it).
I recognize it was a different time, so perhaps divorce wasn’t an option. But a solid BAP on the head with a frying pan wouldn’t be out of line. Not to mention never letting the man ever TOUCH cash. I’d be picking up any and every paycheck–why is she surprised/depressed when he never comes home on paydays?
I also failed to see the humor in the book. Supposedly, it was written in a manner that suggested McCourt was recalling these horrid memories with a sense of humor. Though the book was string of consciousness and had a couple amusing moments ("no wanking on the rain spout!), I don’t exactly see it as a humorous book.
Anyhoo, I am going to get the sequel 'Tis and read it next.
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I have to agree that McCourt’s writing style is a little hard to follow. (It’s okay for the first few chapters, but was starting to wear thin by the end of the book.) I haven’t read Angela’s Ashes, but I have read 'Tis. I was kind of surprised to find myself not liking McCourt or his mother very much. I think my biggest problem was that it seemed like a lot of their problems were largely self inflicted.
“There are more things you don’t know than there are things that I do know. I despair of the imbalance.” – Dr. Morgenes, The Dragonbone Chair
Hmmm. Can’t say I didn’t share any of the reactions stated, but the cumulative effect outweighed them. McCourt didn’t gloss or sentimentalize the hard life. Somehow I ended up putting them in his perspective. He didn’t absolve him mother or father, just accepted who they were and how they lived.
FWIW, after time to digest it, I came to respect McCourt more rather than less. No, he isn’t a stylist, but the narrative voice he chose was good for his message. It was more “memory reportage” than most autobiographical stuff.
Part of the problem could be that it is autobiographical. One of the absolute finest books I’ve read in years is Kingsolver’s “The Poisonwood Bible”. But that is a fictional diarist-voice account with the authorial distance beautifully controlled. McCourt’s account is personal, direct recollection. Yeah, memories are tenuous, and his love of language and a good story need to be factored in. But who hasn’t recast and retold memories until the “story” is more real than the reality?
Overall (and it took time) I admired his honesty and restraint. He didn’t gloss or catastrophize a bleak childhood. FWIW, I placed “Angela’s Ashes” somewhere in the Studs Terkel canon; a guy telling his past the way he remembered it.
Veb
I read it and didn’t like it at all. I have been amazed that neither Frank nor anyone else seems to have identified the mother as having a mental illness, such as chronic depression. Didn’t any of you get that impression? What mentally healthy woman allows her children to die of starvation and neglect, one after another, without a fight?
On the other hand, I was visiting friends in Limerick last August and was told in no uncertain terms that a great deal of Frank’s portrayal of Limerick (in those times) and its treament of his family was patently false. In fact, quite a number of people who knew Frank and his family in the days described in the book have come forward and challenged its veracity most vehemently. In any case, even if you believe every word of the book, Frank’s family was far from the norm in that place, at that time.
I have a few newspaper links from the Limerick Leader about this, but don’t know how to put them into these posts.
uppity woman could you find those links please…be much appreciated
TV, I was also blown away by The Poisonwood Bible. Glad to know someone else was. I know people who didn’t even get through it.
As you say, fiction is quite a lot different from autobiography because it’s tidier with regard to plot, characters, etc. to be able to make them do what you want to make your point, although Angela’s Ashes seems to be a combination of fact and fiction.
I’m not sure what Frank McCourt’s point was. Making money?
The mother was a tragic figure because at the time divorce was NOT an option and women’s options were very, very limited. I agree that she was probably clinically depressed.
I was more angry at the grandparents and aunt for turning away the family time and time again. I can imagine being very upset at my sister for bringing more children into the world that she couldn’t take care of, but I can’t imagine not taking care of them despite my anger.
I mean, these are my nieces and nephews!
I’ve heard McCourt speak, and think he’s a marvelous man. His prose is very simplistic, but effective.
What really comes out of the book is the Irish obsession with suffering and death-goes along with the belief that this life is a “veil of tears”. If you don’t belive it, spend some time with the Irish-great people, but with a dark side. Example: Imwas in Irelad a few years back-in the obituary section of the Dublin paper, they list memoriums-notices of the anniversaries of past deaths. In theis paper, they had one from 1920!I guess you could say they have a morbid streak.
I have read “Angela’s Ashes”, “Tis” and “The Poisonwood Bible”. Here are my views on each of the books:
“Angela’s Ashes”: Hilarious (dark humor, of course) and very poetic. His writing style was clear, forward and descriptive without being flowery and sentimental. I was saddened by the circumstances of their lives but I didn’t dislike any of the characters.
Why? Because unlike the crappy book “The Poisonwood Bible”, the people in “Angela’s Ashes” were three dimensional. They were both “good” and “bad” - totally human. The characters in “Poisonwood Bible” were like cardboard cutouts - totally predictable and totally boring.
Also, “Angela’s Ashes” ended at a nice point. I wondered what became of the McCourt’s and couldn’t wait for the sequel. “Poisonwood Bible” should’ve ended after they left the village. Instead, it trudged on and on and became a bitter, long-winded analysis of how perfect and martyr-like one daughter continued to be, how self-sacrificing and self-loathing the other daughter continued to be and how racist and conceited the third daughter continued to be. Ugh, that book was TORTURE.
“'Tis” actually wasn’t a great sequel, IMO. I thought that it was slow and not very interesting.
A book I enjoyed more than all three of these was “Memoirs of a Geisha”. Has anyone read it?
I agree with you on Poisonwood Bible, it was definitly overrated. Basically as far as I can tell, Barbara Kingsolver simply tried to take on something that she didn’t have the ability to handle(ie Africa).
On Angela’s Ashes, I thought that his style was the best part of the novel. It presents everything from his point of view at the time that he was experiencing the events, he never makes the mistake of inserting himself-as-an-adult into the telling of the story, which as far as I’m concerned is the main problem with many many autobiographical novels. I didn’t much enjoy the book, honestly, but I still thought it was very very well written.
Ah! “Memoirs of a Geisha” is one of my favorite books. Speilburg is supposed to be filming it now, but I haven’t heard a word about it, or when the movie will be released.
Loved “Memoirs of a Geisha.” I was completely ignorant of what a geisha was. Unlike some people, I didn’t associate geisha with prostitution, but rather thought they were performers, dancers. Anyway, it was a good story, even though I thought the ending was a bit Pollyanish.
In any event, I’m looking forward to the movie.