What was the fuss at end of Rams - Cardinals game about? I saw game with no sound.

Cafe Society
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I was watching today’s Rams game in a bar with the sound turned off. There was a big fuss at the end when the Rams punted with just a few seconds on the clock. The Cardinals committed some sort of penalty on the play, but time expired.

It looked like the Cardinal punter was warming up – for a free kick, perhaps??? – but he never took the field. After a several-minute back-and-forth between the coaches and zebras, the Rams got another play with no time on the clock; Bulger took a knee and that was that.

The broadcast station put no explanation on the screen. What exactly did I miss?

Thanks all, in advance.

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The Rams punted to the Cards with about 10 seconds left in the game, but there was a penalty against the Cards defense on the play. The Rams got the ball back and elected to kneel down rather than punt again. The discussion was about how much time should have been on the clock.

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Moved to MPSIMS. samclem

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[QUOTE=samclem]
Moved to MPSIMS. samclem
[/QUOTE]

Why? This was clearly a simple question wth a factual answer – which was in fact already given before it was moved.

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Umm… Frankly, I find the move a little puzzling, too.

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[QUOTE=anson2995]
The Rams punted to the Cards with about 10 seconds left in the game, but there was a penalty against the Cards defense on the play. The Rams got the ball back and elected to kneel down rather than punt again. The discussion was about how much time should have been on the clock.
[/QUOTE]

It was a little more complicated than that, and the bonehead Fox announcers didn’t help explain thing much.

The Rams were trying to kill the clock, but were facing 4th down and had to run a play before the game clock ran out. They punted to the Cardinals. While the ball was still in the air, the officials were throwing out yellow flags and blowing whistles. The Cardinals receiver called for a fair catch and made it with no time left on the clock.

But wait! The Cardinals were offsides on the play, and the rules state the game can’t end on a defensive penalty. The Rams declined the penalty, and the game was over.

Or was it? The rules also state that when a team makes a fair catch, they have the right to take a free kick. The Cardinals had signaled for a free catch and successfully executed it, the Rams had declined the penalty, and the Cardinals kicker started stretching to try and turn the free kick into a 75-yard field goal attempt (hey, why not?)

Why not indeed? Remember, the penalty was offsides, which by definition took place before the ball was snapped. Therefore the play should have been ruled dead before it took place.

That would mean that no time had elapsed! Indeed, that’s what the officials ruled. And they put 2 seconds back on the clock.

However if the Rams decline the penalty, that means the play would have been allowed to stand, Arizona would have the ball and a chance (albeit a slim one) to make a game winning field goal. So instead, the Rams accepted the penalty, took the five yards and then, with 2 seconds left, took the snap and a knee and time expired.

Now doesn’t it all make perfect sense?

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Oh, one other thing. If this question didn’t qualify for GQ, I think it should have been moved to Cafe Society.

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[QUOTE=stuyguy]
Umm… Frankly, I find the move a little puzzling, too.
[/QUOTE]

As do I.

The problem was a game can not end on a defensive penalty. If the Rams accepted they gained I believe five yards and got to run a play again. If they declined the Cardinals got a free kick. The Rams declined so the Cardinal’s kicker was warming up for the free kick. The referee even stated this fact.

My question is how can the Rams coaches elect to accept the penalty and incur the new field position in order to take knee? It was already stated that they declined the penalty, and by default the Cardinals get the free kick. Once they found out about the free kick they changed their mind to accept the penalty. Is that possible under NFL rules?

Funny to see all the players getting stopped and ushered back onto the field. The game went on ten minutes with no time left, it was like watching soccer.

On a side note: How many ways are the Cardinals going to find a way to lose? Talk about snatching defeat from the jaws of victory in that game.

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The one bleepin’ time I don’t preview, I swear.

kunilou was pretty much dead on his post (especially regarding the awful announcers).

My question still stands though… is it possible to reverse the coaches’ decline after it had already been stated by the head ref?

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[QUOTE=kunilou]
While the ball was still in the air, the officials were throwing out yellow flags and blowing whistles . . . The penalty was offsides, which by definition took place before the ball was snapped. Therefore the play should have been ruled dead before it took place.
[/QUOTE]
Not so. Offsides takes place concurrent with the snap, and is a live-ball penalty.

If in fact the penalty was offsides, as opposed to encroachment, the officials should not have been blowing whistles. The play should have been allowed to run to completion.

And indeed, according to the NFL play-by-play log (I didn’t see the game), that’s exactly what happened. The punt was executed with five seconds left, the clock ran out during the play, and the kneel-down was executed as an untimed down with 0:00 on the clock.

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[QUOTE=Brandon]
Funny to see all the players getting stopped and ushered back onto the field.
[/QUOTE]
I recall a game, sometime around the early 90s, when players from both teams had left the field and were already getting undressed for showers, but were called back for a few more seconds of game-time. I don’t recall any specifics, but I clearly remember players standing on the sidelines watching the game, wearing their jerseys with no pads underneath and with just towels tied around their waists.

Anyone else remember this?

(And I agree that Cafe Society would have been the right forum for this, but… eh.)

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[QUOTE=OldGuy]
Why? This was clearly a simple question wth a factual answer – which was in fact already given before it was moved.
[/QUOTE]

Sports threads–even ones with simple-to-answer questions–generally belong in Cafe Society. samclem simply paralleled this over to me, so I’m gonna punt it toward the Cafe end-zone.

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[QUOTE=SkipMagic]
Sports threads–even ones with simple-to-answer questions–generally belong in Cafe Society. samclem simply paralleled this over to me, so I’m gonna punt it toward the Cafe end-zone.
[/QUOTE]

Which is the forum they are least likely to get a simple answer. :smiley:

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[QUOTE=SkipMagic]
Sports threads–even ones with simple-to-answer questions–generally belong in Cafe Society. samclem simply paralleled this over to me, so I’m gonna punt it toward the Cafe end-zone.
[/QUOTE]

Lets see, does that makes this 3rd Forum, with a 10 thread penalty?

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If we were playing CFL rules, Third Forum would mean a turn-over. :smiley:

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<snipped kunilou’s exquisite explanation>

Geez…and people say Magic:The Gathering’s timing rules are complicated…

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jackelope - That was Miami in the final regular season game…some odd years ago (don’t remember the opponent). The Dolphins had just prevailed in an extremely tight AFC playoff race by taking the division. Dave Wannsteadt was in the midst of a rousing victory speech when…the bad news came in. The clock didn’t stop on the final play; it should have. Four or so seconds back on the clock, time for one last play. About 45 minutes after time expired the first time, they get back on to finihs it for real.

Miami is on defense. Final play…a pass that clatters to the ground about ten yards from the nearest receiver.

See, that’s why fans hate these stupid blunders. They waste so much freaking time. And as often as not they don’t change the outcome of the game at all, so what’s the point? :slight_smile:

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[QUOTE=Brandon]
On a side note: How many ways are the Cardinals going to find a way to lose? Talk about snatching defeat from the jaws of victory in that game.
[/QUOTE]
I didn’t see the game, but I was following the score.

What do you mean here?

The Rams were up 10-7 at the half, and 16-7 for most of the second. When were the Cards ever in the jaws of victory in this one?

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[QUOTE=Trunk]
I didn’t see the game, but I was following the score.

What do you mean here?

The Rams were up 10-7 at the half, and 16-7 for most of the second. When were the Cards ever in the jaws of victory in this one?
[/QUOTE]

Here’s what the score stats did not show. The Cards scored late in the game to come within 2 points of the Rams. The Rams looked like they could stay alive if they could just eat up most of the remaining time with a sustained drive or a score. The Cards, however, were doing a nice job of keeping them stalled – when St. Louis fumbled and the Cards recovered in Rams territory!

If they could just get a little closer, hold on to the ball, and use up all the time so that the Rams could not strike back, the Cards could win it with just a field goal. Alas, it was not to be. Cards QB, Kurt Warner, fumbled a snap and the Rams recovered. They ate up almost all of the clock and ended the game with a win.

(Poor Kurt. As a Rams fan, I will always love the guy no matter who he plays for.)

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Further than that they recovered it on the Ram’s 30 I believe, so they were already within field goal range. The only thing the Card’s had to do was not lose the ball, that’s it. All the momentum was in the Card’s favor, the fans were exploding, you could see the energy and the life in the eyes of the players. Anyone who has played sports knows the feeling that something’s about to happen, regardless of what the score says. Then with one blunder the life was sucked out of not just the team, but the whole arena.

Did anyone see Kurt yelling at the center for something that was blatantly not his fault? Maybe he could have blamed his guard for it, but the ball was in his possesion and he had control of it. Absolutely disgusting and it showed a complete lack of class. How are you supposed to lead with an attitude like that. I must say I never was fond of Warner, but he’s hanging his team up to dry right now. I understand it wasn’t soley his fault but at times it looked like he was being paid off by the Rams. Looking at his eyes occasionally during the game you had to wonder if getting popped a couple times did rattle his brain.

Also Trunk, I know this is all in the realm of what-ifs, but take away any of Warner’s four turnovers and the Cards most likely win the game. You just had to have seen the way it went. The Cards probably should have won that game despite doing their best to lose.