What was the "Madre de Dios" incident?

[emacknight]

In 1607 the “Madre de Dios” incident occurred. For some reason this was significant in Japanese (Samurai) history and I have no idea why.

I’ve spent all day googling this but the most I can get is that is means “Mother of God” and it is a place in Peru.

Can anyone fill me in?

[Mops]

Apparently the Japanese sank a Portugese merchant ship of that name. This short biography of Tokugawa Ieyasu mentions it.

[emacknight]

Thanks tschild,

From your link

SINKING OF THE MADRE DE DIOS 1609

Ieyasu orders the seizure of Madre de Dios, a Portuguese merchant ship. A Japanese fleet of 1200 troops surrounded the vessel and combat lasted for 3 days. The Portuguese captain, Pessoa, blew up the ship, her crew, and many assailants.

So now that I know what the incident was, any idea [ul]
1.) Why this order was issued, and

2.) What was the result of this? [/ul]

[HeyHomie]

*Originally posted by emacknight *
**
So now that I know what the incident was, any idea [ul]
1.) Why this order was issued, and

2.) What was the result of this? [/ul] **

Someone with more knowledge of Japanese history than myself will be along soon to complete the story, but until then…

#1) Tokugawa Ieyasu fervently tried to “protect” Japan from foreign influences, often brutally so. I’m to understand that he had more than a few Japanese Christians tortured to death (which is ironic, since “Ieyasu” is the Japanese transliteration of “Jesus”). I imagine that he blew up that Portuguese ship simply because he wanted to send a message to the Portuguese that he didn’t want them around.

#2) No idea.

[dakravel]

#1) Tokugawa Ieyasu fervently tried to “protect” Japan from foreign influences, often brutally so. I’m to understand that he had more than a few Japanese Christians tortured to death (which is ironic, since “Ieyasu” is the Japanese transliteration of “Jesus”). I imagine that he blew up that Portuguese ship simply because he wanted to send a message to the Portuguese that he didn’t want them around.

But it looks like the ship was destroyed by it’s captain rather than the Japanese.

[HeyHomie]

*Originally posted by dakravel *
**But it looks like the ship was destroyed by it’s captain rather than the Japanese. **

Er… yeah… [clears throat]

Actually, I wrote “blew up” when I meant “seized.” Simple mistake.

[Akatsukami]

*Originally posted by HeyHomie *
#1) Tokugawa Ieyasu fervently tried to “protect” Japan from foreign influences, often brutally so. I’m to understand that he had more than a few Japanese Christians tortured to death (which is ironic, since “Ieyasu” is the Japanese transliteration of “Jesus”). I imagine that he blew up that Portuguese ship simply because he wanted to send a message to the Portuguese that he didn’t want them around.

This is not quite the case.

Ieyasu was not opposed to foreign influences (his grandson Iemitsu rather was, although he was influenced by the joko (abdicated emperor) Go-Mizunoo, who cut a basically political deal with him (Go-Mizunoo agreed not to let the imperial court be used as a basis for opposition to the Tokugawa, if Iemitsu closed the country to foreign influences, especially Christianity).

Ieyasu was fairly anti-Christian, partly due his fears of the internal political influence of Christianity, and partly as a reaction to his previous belief that tolerance of Christianity was needed as a “stalking horse” to encourage foreign trade.

The Shimabara Rebellion of 1637-1638 was not so much a Christian rebellion as a rebellion of peasants who were Christians. Nonetheless, the Portuguese (who were suspected of complicity) were expelled. In 1641, the Dutch were confined to Deshima (an artificial islet, and therefore not “really” part of Japan, in Nagasaki harbor). The rest is, so to speak, history.

I am not aware of any evidence that “Ieyasu” is a rendering of “Jesus” into Japanese. As the name would likely come from either Portuguese or (less likely) Spanish, I suggest that a transliteration on the order of “Zaso” or “Haso” would be more likely; contemporary Japanese uses “Iesu”.

[HeyHomie]

*Originally posted by Akatsukami *
**This is not quite the case.

<snip>

I am not aware of any evidence that “Ieyasu” is a rendering of “Jesus” into Japanese. As the name would likely come from either Portuguese or (less likely) Spanish, I suggest that a transliteration on the order of “Zaso” or “Haso” would be more likely; contemporary Japanese uses “Iesu”. **

I bow to your superior knowledge, Akatsukami, and regret having spoken without a sufficient knowledge of the facts.

However, I still maintain that “Ieyasu,” regardless of what Tokugawa’s parents had in mind when they named him, is the Roman version of the Japanese version of “Jesus.” At least, that’s how it was spelled/written when I lived & worked in Kashiwazaki, Niigata-ken in the mid 1990’s.

[Akatsukami]

Mmph. I don’t want to go to the matresses over this – and don’t see any point in doing so – but can you think of a way that we can show the katakana used? At the very least, we can count syllables.