What will Obamas second term be like?

Great Debates
1

Assuming that my half drunken Rant was incorrect (it wasn’t) and somehow this incompetent get’s re-elected, even against the [eventual clown he’s going to be running against yet he’s still toast], tell me what his (non-existent) second term is going to look like.

Show me how the unemployment rate by 2016 will be less than it is now. Show me the numbers. Explain the math using the economic beliefs this guy has that more people will be employed then than now, and tell me why that is. “Bush won’t be President” is NOT an answer, unless the question is why all of you are not still bitching about Guantanamo.

Without comparing it to anyone else, especially to anyone not now in power, show me the value in Obamas economic plan.

Show me numbers. Not past numbers, current ones. Show me how his positions have worked in the past, and why they will work in the future.

Regardless of who was President 4 years ago, show me why a majority of people will be better off in 2012 than the were in 2008, and show me why they will be better off in 2016 than they are now.

2

Well, what, half a million? american citizens are home in America not getting IEDs and other things launched at their heads and other squishy parts. So, they’re objectively better off. And I am still bitching about Guantanamo.

The entirety of the american populace under 26 who do not qualify for healthcare* on their own are objectively better off. (I was really rooting for the entire american populace to finally have a healthcare system that was sensible but apparently we can’t have nice things.)

LGBT soldiers are now free to protect their country and be themselves ending years of emotional frustration and mental anguish. They’re objectively better off.

Would any of these have happened with McCain in the white house? Of course not. Could I reasonably expect further advances like these with Romney? No. Why in the world wouldn’t I want Obama back?

3

You haven’t answered the question. Try again if you wish.

4

The specificity of my answer matches the specificity of your question. When you begin the discussion with something more than petulant demands for numbers, you may find answers more to your liking. (In general that is. I’m sure you, specifically will find reasons to disregard any thoughtful answer that doesn’t match your preferred view of the world.)

5

Here are some charts on the economy from 2011: Some charts on the economy from 2011

Unemployment is a late indicator of economic growth and hopefully the numbers will continue to trend downward. Unfortunately, I cannot show you the unemployment numbers for 2016 since I do not have a time machine.

The ‘majority of people’ will be better off immediately in 2012 because they got a nice little tax break that will give them an extra $1500.00 for the year, provided Republicans don’t find a way to eliminate it. Inner Stickler mentioned some other items that will affect the ‘majority of people’. Also, there are some Wall Street reform and consumer protection issues coming up that will serve ‘the majority’ well.

Obama has made many decisions that are helpful to small business and the middle class. Those are the people that drive the economy. If they are healthy, the rest of us will be too.

Look here: http://www.barackobama.com/record/economy/

6

Pkbites, seriously, not only is there really no way to answer your questions in a way that would satisfy you, there’s no way to answer your questions satisfactorily at all, because they require access to the future, which none here have.

Also, based upon how you phrased and framed your questions, it seems you would dismiss any response that doesn’t denigrate Obama. There is room for a discussion in your questions, but I’m not sure you’re really interested in having one.

I could talk about the tactics he employed to prevent the economy from tanking worse than it did, but I suspect you will either refuse to acknowledge it, or attribute it to another president. I could talk about the unemployment numbers, and other indicators, e.g., housing starts, etc… trending in a positive direction, but I suspect you’ll dismiss the numbers as phony or, again, attribute the trends to some other source (which is fine actually, as I’m not convinced the president has much impact on those things anyway, even when they trend positive. However, if the numbers get worse, you will certainly blame him, and you can’t have it both ways.)

I’m a registered Independent, and I voted for Obama last time. I was much, much more enthusiastic about him then. I can admit that I had somewhat unreasonable expectations for what would happen during his first term. I was extremely disappointed with the gift to the medical insurance companies that is the new healthcare law, for example. I also hadn’t considered the possibility that he’d govern like a moderate Republican, so I am disappointed there. That said, I’ll be voting for him this time as well. Why? Because (a) even though I’m unhappy that he hasn’t accomplished some of the things dear to me, he does have an impressive list of achievements, contrary to the assertions of others that he’s done nothing, and (b) he is, to my eyes, a better, more adult choice than the alternatives.

Do I know that the economy will be better with a second Obama term? Of course not. I suspect it will if only because of the cyclical nature of such things. I do, however, believe Obama will attempt to do whatever it takes to ensure an upswing. Do I know if Obama will govern to the left of his current position in his second term? No, of course not. I also expect not. He seems to be comfortable as a moderate, so why would he change?

I believe it is more than reasonable to believe Obama will win a second term, in spite of a concerted, continuous and, and I must admit, successful Republican campaign to kill anything he attempts, so he must be doing something right.

And no, I haven’t answered your questions.

7

Depends on what Congress looks like. The Senate is likely to pick up more Republicans, and if it flips to Republican control, then Obama won’t be able to do much of anything at all.

8

Moved Elections to Great Debates.

9

I believe a Democratic House could trump a Republican Senate, potentially. Not saying it will. The smaller number of Senators make each one a bigger target. You also have to consider the mid-term 2014 changeover in the Senate which would have a bigger effect than the 2012 changes on the way they vote.

10

Good point. The Democrats used to be the party best able to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory, but it seems that the Republicans have taken that honor of late. If they win full control of Congress in 2012, 2014 could smack them upside the head real good.

11

Let’s not get into the whole objective versus subjective debate. :wink:

Seriously, it’s objective. No argument.

12

For one thing, in his second term Obama might get to fill one or two more SCOTUS vacancies, that’s something of real value. Too bad Roberts is only 56 and Alito 61. But he might get a chance to replace Scalia (75) and Kennedy (75).

13

It’s not Obama’s job to make me better off in 2016 than I was in 2008. It’s his job to make me better off than I would have been under another President.

14

I daresay he’s done that already.

15

I’m not sure that he has, economically, but I don’t think he’s done anything that President McCain would not have.

However, he’s done lots of things that benefited me (or people I like) socially, and that’s alright with me.

16

As evidenced by the 2010 elections? I’m certainly not ready to take that honor away from the Democrats yet.

17

Can you show us that it will be worse off?

18

Ginsberg is 78 and has cancer. I think she’ll need replacing before either of those two. Of course, replacing her with another relatively liberal candidate wouldn’t change the balance of power too much, but if a Republican is elected, replacing her would fundamental alter the balance for decades.

Which is why, to me, a second Obama term is better than a Republican term.

19

Campaign in poetry, govern in prose.

He will [continue to] tack to the center, like Bill Clinton.

20

This though “center” is defined in relation to opinion of the political and elite classes. So, skewed to the right. The guy will continue to be nothing special as POTUS but far better than any Pubbie. For instance, the recent (and long overdue) power plant emissions standards won’t be overturned.