What would a realistic space battle look like, given the following conditions?

I am writing a realistic science fiction to be set in the year 2060-ish. Technology, then, is only what would be within the realm of possibility to-day.

Ships in my continuity use atomic pulse propulsion, a la Project Orion. In other words, they drop a nuclear bomb and the pressure wave propels them forward or backwards. Ships look like capsules of medication (cylinders with rounded ends); on both ends, a plate of steel is attached to spring dampeners so that the crew isn’t made too uncomfortable during acceleration. The whole thing looks like a dumbbell. There is also an adjustable solar sail, to add a negligible amount of acceleration per minute, as long as it’s pointed towards the Sun. Realistic enough?

There are seven kinds of munition used in battles: the humble bullet (from a railgun), the kinetic-energy missile (concrete payload), the nuclear MIRV missile, the EMP missile for messing with the enemy’s electronics (makes them unable to steer, accelerate, brake, etc), the nuclear/EMP torpedo (just like the nuclear/EMP missiles except used as area denial, with a proximity fuse) and finally the “hedgehog” missile, like Project Excalibur. Missile propulsion is with T-Stoff (85% H2O2) and a peroxide catalyst, exhaust therefore consists of water.

I wonder about sizes of the missiles, though. I was thinking of making them like air-to-air missiles (on the order of 6 yd in length), then ICBM’s (20-35 yd). Problem is with the “hedgehogs”.

An x-ray maser has an aspect ratio of 1:10,000. That means a maser 1 in. in diameter will be 300 yd. in length. It is single use and pumped with an atomic bomb. How would such a thing fit even into a 35 yd. long ICBM-type missile?

What kind of tactics would be used? I know that space ships go forward until stopped (no air resistance) and that battles would be at distances of tens of thousands of kilometres away, but two ships simply shooting at each other is a bit boring. I’m thinking evasive manoeuvres, etc. It should be noted that battles will take place in the corner of space between Earth and Mars (it’s a war of acquisition, casus belli is the two aggressors were turned down for the UN Security Council, and Mars is already inhabited).

I remember being linked this short CGI clip a while ago that claimed it was the most realistic version of a space battle you’d ever see

I can see the C-beams glittering in the dark.

All battles have always been space battles, haven’t they? It just depends which bit of space. :slight_smile:

[quote=“Asuka, post:2, topic:811959”]

I remember being linked this short CGI clip a while ago that claimed it was the most realistic version of a space battle you’d ever see

[/QUOTE]

Very cool video!!

Do some extensive reading (take notes! it’ll be on the test!) at Project Rho/Atomic Rockets. Not only the Space War pages, but pages on ship design will be helpful to you, too.

Presumably one option would be Nelsonian sea tactics (or ‘just go at them’ lack thereof).

If you see the enemy you basically charge straight at them, shooting whatever you’ve got. Advantages are - small target, can invest in super-armour on the front end of your giant Space Tylenol, negate effects of clever maneouvring.

Also this allows line ahead formations, so one Ship is taking the heat, and anyone attempting to flank gets it from nos 2, 3, 4 etc.

The OP is asking for “realistic”, which is very constraining. From the “misconceptions” page of the site I mentioned:

How do you keep your own nukes/EMP from damaging your own ships?

The inverse square law. As I mentioned above, battles would take place with the two sides many miles apart from each other. And there is no air to transmit heat from nuclear explosions. I keep pushing PR/AR, but it really is a deep source of information. Nuclear weapon use is included in the section “Conventional Weapons.”

Another thing to consider - I forget who first wrote about it, where there was an all-out shooting war on an asteroid. When the two sides finally declared a truce, someone broke the truce and shot an opposing soldier within minutes - until they figured out that all the ammunition they had fired off had created a cloud of bullets orbiting the asteroid and basically rendering it unusable.

That’s the problem in space with kinetic weapons and debris from explosions - if this is a regularly travelled space lane, or the resulting orbit of the debris intersects one, you’ve just planted a ticking time bomb for all future flights. At least when the Chinese tested a killer satellite in earth orbit, the resulting mess of pieces will eventually (! Eventually!) decay and fall to earth. I would think that energy weapons and focussed subatomic particle beams would be more effective, less likely to produce a hazardous mess, and harder to defend against. As an alternative, a neutron bomb or EMP bomb set off nearby would be incredibly effective in making a vessel a non-threat without creating a mess. IIRC from discussions about protection from solar flares, radiation protection generally consists of feet of heavy solids - impractical in space.

Presumably bombs would be shrouded in stealth tech to avoid being seen; and the appropriate defence would be energy weapons like lasers to slag any incoming ordnance. Not sure how you could fit a long weapon in a short spacecraft; instead, I assume there would be extremely long ships (dreadnoughts? candelabras?) to provide artillery support from the rear - where the problem is aiming, once ships are a significant part of a light-second or more apart. A key piece of tech would be the predictive aiming AI - where will the enemy ship be when the beam reaches them? Alternatively the “cannon” would be “shore batteries”, support artillery buried in the local large planetoid or moon. Remember, in space, the impact of an energy weapon would not degrade with distance, except for the “spread” factor. OTOH, with a heavenly body as a backdrop one could safely use kinetic weapons and be assured the debris will (should?) be collected because it all hits the ground.

Also as a fun extra - Google for and read up on immersing lab rats and humans in liquid Freon with a high oxygen content. Basically make the passenger compartment (or personnel cocoons) a bath with a medium approximately the same density as water and human bodies. This would allow the craft to perform extremely high-G maneuvers without squashing the occupants. So the energy weapon aiming AI is in an arms race with hyper-maneuverable vehicles able to dodge with unpredictable course changes. But… avoid the stealth neutron bomb MIRV’s.

OTOH, I am totally skeptical of such a scenario because space would be, like the earth, a sitting duck for nuclear destruction. The same scenario of Mutual Assured Destruction would likely be applicable in space. Anything big enough to be a viable home base is a sitting duck for a barrage of nuclear weapons, not to mention the rest of the supply chain; and any outbreak will result in extreme annihilation once everyone is fully armed. Where do the soldiers’ families live? Where’s the massive industry to build atomic bombs by the thousands, with the complex refining required to purify isotopes? Where is the uranium coming from? IANAAstronomer but it seems to me only the heavy planets have the differentiated cores that allow for large veins of uranium. And so on…

So often sci-fi like old time adventure ignores the basic details. Think through and answer these details to make your story more realistic. For example… If you have a city in the desert - where does it get water? Food for ten thousand or a hundred thousand? A city in the jungle also needs fields instead of jungle commensurate with its population size. So it’s the same in space - several problems loom. We flip on lights and computers and forget how much energy we are using; in space, every piece of energy has a price. Look at the size of the ISS solar panels to feed 6 people. If we use nuclear power instead - most current (sorry!) designs for power generation still need to shed excess heat. Industrial processes on earth shed a lot of heat 9and waste material). Plus, once you get out to the asteroid belt and Jupiter, solar power is nowhere near as strong as near Earth’s orbit.

you might say this is a proxy war, a form of Vietnam - the Earth powers are happy to fight it out in space and not touch home. However, making a mess in high earth orbit risks destroying satellites upon which everyone depend. Bullets in the Mekong delta did not impact the USSR or USA - bullets in geosynchronous earth orbit hurt everyone eventually.

I’m not saying it won’t work. I’m just saying, don’t forget to take into account and explain the dynamics of how all this works. Plus wars are expensive. A three-year orgy of destruction in middle Europe left it in ruins and took over two decades to clean up. That’s war… a short massive destructive phase, followed by many years of picking up the pieces.

Children of a Dead Earth is a recent PC game that simulates space combat, orbital mechanics included, using plausible near-future technology. If you don’t want to buy it and play it yourself, I suggest watching Scott Manley’s videos (part 1 here), where he plays it while explaining the physics and tactics along the way.

One take of an epic space battle.

In Protector, the space battle takes place over many months, and the results of various attacks (missiles, Radon bombs, lasers) aren’t known for a long time.

As for your directed energy weapon: first of all, it’s not a MASER, because that is (by definition) a Microwave device. It’s an x-ray laser. Having your amplification chamber be almost a quarter-mile long is going to make it really difficult to aim. Better to have it shorter, and more maneuverable, even if that means getting closer to you target. Also, from a logistics standpoint, you want multiple lasers pumped off of a single nuclear bomb.

High altitude EMP is the result of interactions between energetic gamma rays and the upper atmosphere. While it is possible to create electromagnetic pulses in other ways the attenuation due to distance would require the weapon to be either very large or very close to have much of an effect on equipment already designed to be protected against the effects of solar charged particles, it would probably just be easier to fire a stream of highly charged particles at a ship to blind sensors and communication.

MIRV stands for Multiple Independent Reentry Vehicles, and is intended to be a strategic multiplier for ICBMs which allows each individual missile to hit muliple targets widely spaced from one another by altering trajectory and delaying RV deployment. I don’t think this is what you mean for a space battle. The use of cluster submunitions which delpoy on their terminal path toward the target giving a wide coverage area and greater chance of hitting something sensitive is probably what you want.

However, for battles in space between vessels moving on different trajectories, nuclear weapons or rockets really aren’t needed (nor are chemical rockets sufficient for relatively quick interplanetary battles). Even small differences in momentum at orbital speeds result massive kinetic energies, and throwing out a cloud of steel balls in an array covering any plausible trajectory for a spacecraft will assure its destruction similar to what is seen after the Kessler event in the film Gravity. Short of carrying some enormous sacrifical ahield of great mass to absorb the projectiles no vessel could survive multiple objects flying at several kilometers per second. Of course, that works both ways; a real space battle would be about edging close enough to get a lucky kill shot at the edge of capability while remaining far enough away or hiding behind a large asteroid or moon to avoid getting counterattacked and destoryed.

One might build missiles with a nuclear pressure pulse device to deploy a spread of such dumb projectiles, but the exhaust and thermal signature of such a device would be seen from far away giving a craft potentially time to get out of range of threat, so unless it is much faster than the craft it is attacking it wouldn’t provide a significant advantage.

A solar sail on something the mass of a practical ORION-type craft would have to be the size of a large moon to provide any useful level of thrust, and would be too delicate to survive the thrust of the main propulsion system. However, a spacecraft will need some way to radiate away internal waste heat. Since ORION is an external propulsion system you don’t have the problem of high temperature waste heat from the propulsion system, but internal life support, power generation, and just the crew will produce more heat than a cylindrical metal hull would be able to radiate away, so your craft will have to have some kind of outward-facing fins to reject excess heat energy, or a fluid it can evaporate and and dump for cooling.

Stranger

Another doper turned me on to this guy’s series of speculative videos on the future. He has several on space warfare.

So given your technology, I think one major factor is that ships will take quite awhile to change speed or direction. IOW, they will be set on specific interplanetary trajectories which will be very difficult to change.

They will also be completely visible to each other as the laws of thermodynamics dictate that there is no stealth in space.

Given the tech you described, missiles and nukes are largely superfluous. The impact of dumb munitions travelling at tens of thousands of MPH would do the trick. Nukes don’t work all that well in the vacuum of space anyway.

I would envision combat would consist of ships millions of miles apart firing swarms of thousands of dumb projectiles and countermeasures into each other’s path. Unable to alter course or speed, they would then wait hours, days or weeks or even longer to see who wins.

Just a drive by link here, and apologies if someone already linked to him, but here is Isaac Arthur’s video on space warfare. There are a ton more videos on his page as well dealing with various aspects of space or interstellar warfare as well as specific videos on things like shields, armor or weapons.

The USA navy has lasers that can quickly set a small ship on fire or destroy a flying drone overhead. Being that the cost of the fire is about 25 cents, and it fires at the speed of light there is no time at all to react.

That is 2018, by 2060 you'd have to figure the range and targeting along with the devastation will be twentyfold what is it today, so I suggest if you want a story where the one who fires first does not win easily, you add in a star trek like deflector shields to the ships.

Don’t forget that every kinetic force required to launch goodies will be reflected in the equal and opposite response to the support, which must be accounted for in controlling the dynamics of any engagement, from the ship, of course, for starters.

I just linked to it in the previous post.:smiley:

But you were the one who originally turned me on to his work.