So worse than ISIS?
That’s the real issue; it’s an ideological fight provoked by the economic and social problems are present in the middle east. We’re not viewed as a friendly or credible actor in the area, so our contributions to the idea war aren’t too great, and military action is more likely to harm civilians and shift hearts and minds to DAESH than to the West.
So I’d say the best thing to do would be to contain them; basically blockade them by land, sea and air. Deliberately cut off any internet access, jam any outgoing broadcasts, set up checkpoints, etc…
What else are you going to do? Bomb them into submission? Change their minds?
As mentioned in the OP, some folks say that ISIS is attempting to usher in the End Times prophecy, through their annihilation and returning of Christ.
If they are so hell-bent of goading the rest of the world into doing this, by torturing, murdering, bombing, beheading, slaughtering innocents within their reach. Well, I say we test their prophecy and give them what they are seeking. I say we even announce the day in the coming months that this retribution will take place to allow any innocents that can get out of the area to do so before it commences, and those that want to be there for the slaughter to get there. And then unleash all hell upon them.
ISIS and it’s beliefs do not fit into our society. So you want out, we’ll oblige.
After it’s over, if Jesus himself hasn’t descended on his white horse, we take every last fucking resource from that area to repay the countries that worked together to dissolve them. And then turn the property over to country of Turkey.
Like a chalk board, you erase what you don’t want and start over. If it ends up the same way, you erase it again.
The bomb on the Russian plane was claimed today by Daesh.
Just in time for the evening news in Moscow.
One step higher on Mr. Putins shit list.
Mighty brave of you to accept greater collateral damage. Which ignores the fact that “collateral damage” means the houses, property, and lives of actual human beings who are living in areas conquered by ISIS.
How many Syrian/Iraqi children are acceptable to kill, on a French/American child ratio? Like, if ISIS kills one innocent French child, how many innocent Syrian children should die in response?
How exactly do you think it’s going to work, trying to massacre every human being in ISIS territory? That’s your fucking plan? Seriously?
Terrorist attacks aren’t a problem that can be solved, because terrorism is a tactic, not an enemy. It’s like deciding to end war. Nice goal, but you don’t end war by defeating the German Wehrmacht. You end one war once Hitler is dead and you’re occupying Germany. Then you’ve got more wars to deal with, and killing Hitler didn’t get rid of Stalin, rather the reverse.
Terrorism like the Paris attacks are a tactic of weak organizations against strong countries. They are handled mostly in the same sorts of ways you fight organized crime. Yes, that means sometimes you send in the SWAT teams or drop bombs in various places. And sometimes you fire a $2 million missile into a $10 empty tent and hit a camel in the butt. Seems to me the most effective way of dealing with organizations like ISIS and Al Qaida is disrupting communications and finance. Where do they get their money? How do they communicate with each other. Note that Bin Ladin refused to allow phones and computers into his compound because he believed, probably correctly, that any electronic communication could be tracked by the US government. Except how do you run an international criminal cartel with hand-written, hand-delivered communications? How do you move money from one country to another? The suitcase full of bricks of $100 bills is a venerable tradition, but for serious transactions you need banks.
All a two-bit nobody needs to become an important somebody is a rifle and some ammo and not caring if they live or die. Anyone can pick up a rifle and start shooting and kiill a lot of people. And there is absolutely nothing we can do about this, except try to identify the nuts and put them in jail before they get to that point. And keep the nuts from working together effectively. Ask Gunny Hartman what one motivated man with a rifle is capable of. This is not a problem that can be solved, only managed, because gunpowder has been invented and it can’t be un-invented, and the human brain fails in mysterious and unpredictable ways.
So any solution to terrorism has to be one that we can live with forever. It can’t be an emergency crisis response, and after we defeat the bad guy we can go back to business as usual. Our responses have to be compatible with living in a free society. And it turns out that unfree societies have lots of terrorism too, it’s silly to think that a strongman dictator can take the brutal steps necessary to keep people safe. What the dictator is really able to do control the news media’s response to attacks. If a nut with a gun massacres a bunch of people in Russia, and Vladimir Putin doesn’t want it on the news, it’s not on the news.
ISIS is a magnet for disaffected nutty Islamic youngsters who think violence is cool. If we blow up ISIS headquarters and destroy ISIS, the nutty Islamic youngsters are still going to be there, and there are going to be new organizations ready to use them. Notice how nobody talks about Al Qaida anymore? Whatever happened to Al Qaida? We disrupted them and now nutty Islamic youngsters who enjoy violence don’t call themselves Al Qaida, they call themselves ISIS. And when we end ISIS as an organization, there’s going to be a new multinational terrorist brand for murderous losers to affiliate themselves with.
Pretty sure it was claimed by them the day it went down, 10/31/15- http://uk.reuters.com/article/2015/10/31/uk-egypt-crash-islamic-state-idUKKCN0SP0P320151031
I have the feeling that within the near future, the civilized countries of the world will finally come to recognize that Islam is not a religion. It is a political philosophy that masquerades as a religion, and they will band together and wipe it out. And that will meaning killing damn near every Muslim in the world.
Sad but true. If the so-called “moderate” Muslims don’t shut down the radicals, the world will do it for them and they will get (literally) caught in the crossfire.
They have pictures.
It would seem they are proud of their work.
Mr. Putins electoral base are sure to want clarity on the subject.
I think as long as the Koran is taught in madrases the way it is, some radicalization will always be around, even in a tepid form. There lies one major root of the problem. All Muslim I have ever talked to have veered into the same topics: their feelings of persecution and their hatred of Jews. Some Muslims from North Africa I have spoken say how much respect they had for America before the 1970s. But no matter where they come from, whether European Muslim of Middle Eastern or African descent, they don’t differ much in their interpretation of the Koran. Where are the pragmatic, moderate Muslims we hear about, who voice their opposition to Daesh? I have yet to come across them. I have never met any atheists among Muslims, nor have I met any agnostics among them (though i’m sure there are). I have met those who will frankly tell me that they smoke and drink and commit other offenses but that they try to be good Muslims. There will be no end to this clash with Islam because the moderate voices among Muslims are far too few to change the overwhelmingly radicalized majority. That is at least my sense of how things stand but I could be wrong. Unless there is some radical overhaul in the interpretation of the Koran just as Vatican II accomplished on the subject of Jews from 1962-65, I don’t foresee any progress in relations between the Judeo-Christian West and the Islam.
Actually, now that you mention it…I’ve never met an atheist Muslim either! What’s up with that? :rolleyes:
…but there are atheist Jews
those who don’t believe call themselves “cultural Muslims”
Cultural Muslim - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Cultural Muslims are religiously unobservant, secular or irreligious individuals who still identify with the Muslim culture due to family background, personal …
Are we allowed to bet money on this here message board? Because I’d bet a hell of a lot of money against you on this one, Clothahump.
All betting is done on the Giraffe derp forums or the Snackpit.
I think some people should have a read of this. What do you think.
On the other hand, more specifically, Obama agrees with me that war in (the former) Syria will not end with Assad on the scene. Further, that Assad must be gone before IS/Daesh can be defeated.
Thank you all.