So I’ve been following the news and threads regarding North Korea and in much of the discussion people have been weighing up the capability of the armed forces. I think this is a misleading way of looking at the situation, as it treats both nations ‘black boxes’ and limits the human factor.
If we remember in Iraq masses of troops simply surrendered, in Afghanistan the end of the state did not mean the end of fighting for territory. Maybe in the case of North Korea it will be different again?
To think about this I considered what would happen if North Koreans came into full contact with South Korea, as a thought experiment imagine the Americans left and South Korea simply tore up the fences and mine fields. How do you think North Korea would react? If they were to send in masses of troops in order to take control of Seoul how do you think the average North Korea soldier would react to seeing it and the people for the first time? How far do you think brainwashing can truly extend?
I can’t find them at the moment but there are some articles floating around which discuss North Korean refugees in South Korea which may be illuminating.
Stalin was able to take over Eastern Europe without too much of a problem with his troops being “contaminated” by outside ideas. I don’t think Kim would have a problem in making sure the cultural exchange doesn’t backflow either.
Sure but it was a very different scenario, the people of Russia could see the devastation caused by the Nazi’s. Also they hadn’t had the years of indoctrination at that point. And the Eastern European societies they walked into didn’t really have anything over Russia at the time, except maybe the Czech part of Czechoslovakia so there was nothing really to alter what they’d been told versus what they saw.
With the Korea’s that is different.
What is evident is that when the Berlin wall broke down plenty of people flooded to the West and that when they returned they had massive impact upon their home societies. So obvious solution for the Kim’s be to erect their own barrier keeping ordinary citizens within, but then the issue is with the military - the effect upon them of seeing a prosperous, democratic society would be interesting? I don’t think they would respond as robotically as some think.
the NK people, soldiers included, are fully aware about much higher standard of living in South Korea. The reason why they have not yet started holding “be ins” as part of the “struggle for civil rights against evil government oppression” is because the evil government is quite willing to kill people for disobedience. In wartime conditions in occupied South Korea it would be no different because mutiny is bad for your health, especially in an NK type army.
Also, just because you know that somebody lives better than you do does not prevent you from hating them for ideological reasons. How about “@#$% the bastard SK traitors who sold out the motherland to evil Yankees and got so rich while we were starving carrying on the heroic bla bla bla”.
What I’ve read leads me to think otherwise. It seems to be a piece of information that’s beginning to trickle into NK, but apparently, it remains a source of surprise to, for example, defectors.
My opinion only, but I think that the collapse of the Soviet Union, and more particulary the fall of communism in the countries that it occupied, came as a result of the knowlege that the Western life style was streets ahead in its standard and quality of living.
This, despite years and years of Soviet propoganda extolling the superiority of communist life.
N.K. has a virtual blackout on news and information from the outside world and fear is the major tool of compliance for its population.
If the average N.Korean came into contact with the S.Korean lifestyle the present regime would collapse overnight as the shock of contrast would be incredibly strong, as a result of the ignorance that N.Koreans have been kept in.
There was a much greater propoganda result from E.Germans watching W.German t.v. then all of the broadcasts by Voice of America I.M.O. .
I just read Nothing to Envy, a very interesting book about everyday life in North Korea. Perhaps the most interesting part was the discussion of how defectors integrate into South Korean society.
Mostly, it’s tough and lots of people admit they wish they had stayed in North Korea.
One is that the people who leave are often people who didn’t fit into society for a number of reasons which won’t go away just because they move to a new country. And of course they miss their families, which may be made even worse by the fact that their families may be punished for what they did. But it’s a host of small cultural things that make it really hard. Malnourished North Koreans are considered unattractive in a society that greatly values tallness. Sexuality is far more open in South Korea, something that prudish North Koreans may never get comfortable with. Having grown up without a consumer society, many find it hard to get much joy out of material processions, and miss the simple pleasures they’d share with their families.
Their families as far as I know are ALWAYS punished, put into forced labour camps.
Ref your mention of malnourished N.Koreans you can see the contrast at the border crossing where you see S.Korean soldiers (probably picked for that very reason) built like brick shithouses giving the hard stare to their opposite numbers who are short and slightly built.
And those are the priveleged members of N.Korean society.
North Koreans are about as brainwashed as is possible. Actually, it isn’t really brainwashing in that its simply what they’ve all been told their entire lives. As far as they know, this is the way the universe is. And it revolves around and is kept going by their “Dear Leader”.
Watch North Korean “news” footage covering the death & funeral of Kim’s father, their “Great Leader”. Everyone everywhere is literally sobbing uncontrollably.
From the book above, the impression I get is that getting South Korean television and radio is a bit dangerous, but not too incredibly difficult and not all that uncommon. Penalties if you are caught have relaxed a lot. It’s something a bright and bored teenager might do. People are told that it is all propaganda and lies, but it doesn’t take watching too many South Korean soap operas to figure things out.
DVDs from China can be found in marketplaces, and people are even finding ways to take advantage of cell phone networks along the Chinese border. Indeed, goods from China are seeping into the marketplaces and increasingly tolerated. People understand pretty well that China is a more abundant place, and many hear rumors that South Korea is full of riches beyond comprehension. It’s still surprising when people see it with their own eyes, but I think most adults beyond the “true believers” realize there is a bigger world out there even if they are not quite sure what that world might be.
From what I understand, punishing defectors’ families has relaxed a bit. What would have been an instant life-long prison sentence for everyone in the 1990s would probably be a lot less harsh today, depending on the circumstances. This has lead to a lot of guilt from people who defected earlier when things were harsher.
[QUOTE=Hail Ants;12514777Watch North Korean “news” footage covering the death & funeral of Kim’s father, their “Great Leader”. Everyone everywhere is literally sobbing uncontrollably.[/QUOTE]
I read an account by one escapee where he mentioned that everyone was sobbing uncontrollably because to not do so would have been a likely death sentence.
The problem with the OP senerio is even without the help of the USA or any other nation, North Korea would not simply walk in and take over South Korea. It wouldn’t be a cakewalk in any sense. The South is twice as large in terms of population. It’s industrial production is miles and miles ahead of the North.
The Chinese wouldn’t be happy about it either and wouldn’t tolerate it. Without China, North Korea wouldn’t last a week.
The Soviets were so far ahead of the countries they took over that you can’t compare that to a North takeover of South Korea.