What do you think it’s about?
Um, control and violence, maybe?
What would happen if (a) men got pregnant or (b) men were easily and incontravertably identifiable as the parent of a child or © both of the above.
Biologically, men have been given the option to disappear (someone joked to me today “so you don’t have any children that you know about” - men can, and some do). The notions that something could end up growing in there AND that you’re going to have to take care of it can curb your behavior, no matter how horny you may be.
Also, I’d agree with even sven, that a lot of what appears is social, not physiological conditioning. Society punishes women both socially and economically for displaying “too strong” of a sex drive. (And it celebrates men who do the same). It’s gotten less so in the past 40 or so years, but there’s still definite negative consequences for women when they express general horniness.
Ah yes. Just like all those other violent, controlling crimes where you ejaculate at the end.
Can you give examples of these consequences? I really can’t think of any.
So you are saying that if you had a sex drive high enough, you would be compelled to rape women?
No, the thought of raping someone doesn’t arouse me, but I believe the people who rape women do it because it arouses them.
For most people who rape, it is ultimately more about power and control than about sex. The idea of having such power over another person is what gets the rapist off, not the actual sex act itself. That’s why a good deal of rapists have wives and steady girlfriends.
That is not a logical conclusion to reach from his initial statements.
You could perhaps say that having a high enough sex drive in addition to a complete lack of respect for the other person’s wishes would mean one would be compelled to rape a person.
I bet it is being horrified at the idea of putting someone else through such a traumatic experience just for one’s own desires that keeps many from raping, in fact what keeps most from thinking about it in the first place.
The whole “about power and violence” thing sounds a little convoluted to me. I can’t say for sure that it isn’t true, but “I want that. I want that now and I don’t care about anything else!” is a satisfactory explanation to me about both rape and theft.
Not all rape necessarily ends with ejaculation. The lack of respect and desire to dominate is the central issue in these cases.
The difference between rape and theft is obvious. Theft results in material gain - rape does not. The only thing gained from rape is that sense of power.
I can believe that about serial rapists. But most rape is acquiantance rape, so I have difficulty with that.
And you know this how?
True, but not all consensual sex ends with ejaculation either. When sexual gratification is involved, it is a sexual act, whether or not it leads to orgasm.
Sexual gratification may not be material gain, but it’s certainly some kind of gain.
Ahhh, but most rapists are serial rapists, if by that you mean they commit more than one act of non-consensual sexual assault.
In the OP, rape is used as an argument for women being less sexual than men. This implies that the more horny and sexually frustrated an individual is, the more likely they are to rape someone. I believe this is false, that level of sexual desire has no impact on a peron’s likelyhood to commit rape. In other words, I don’t believe rape is directly related to level of sexual desire.
Furthermore, what makes you think that acquiantance rape doesn’t have the same level of violence as stranger rape? All of my friends who have been raped and told me of their experiences have been raped by someone they knew ahead of time. In many cases, violence was involved and the most violent, degrading rape I have ever had a friend tell me about was committed by an ex-boyfriend.
I have an unusual interest in criminal studies and have read hundreds of books on criminal profiling and serial killers/rapists in general. If first became interested in the subject when I read John Douglas’ first book. He and other experts have written very interesting books about the subject. I suggest one called Obsession where he “probes the psyches of killers, rapists, and stalkers and their victims and tells how to fight back.” He identifies different types of rapists and describes their motivations. Although his work has many flaws, it gives the general public more information about rapists.
On a more personal level, I’m into rape fantasies. I’ve been on many message boards and groups where I have discussed this with other women who have these fantasies and all of us agree that it is ultimately about dominance and control.
Can I get a cite for that?
It’s a bad argument. I just don’t entirely agree with what you’re saying about rape.
I never said it wasn’t violent. I said it was motivated more by sexual desire than power. It’s easy for me to agree that the hypothetical rapist who sneaks up on a woman late at night in a parking lot is doing it because he wants to have power. When it’s a guy raping a friend or a girlfriend in his dorm room, maybe after having a little too much to drink, I find that explanation less convincing. I think it’s the latter (in a vague way) that’s more representative of reality.
I know this because I was drugged, kidnapped, beaten and raped by I know not whom.
When sexual gratification is involved, that doesn’t necessarily mean it is the reason. Cause and correlation are not equal. Some people get off driving fast cars.
You are correct. It is some kind of gain - the gain of control, power and dominance.
I know this because I was drugged, kidnapped, beaten and raped by I know not whom.
When sexual gratification is involved, that doesn’t necessarily mean it is the reason. Cause and correlation are not equal. Some people get off driving fast cars.
You are correct. It is some kind of gain - the gain of control, power and dominance. These things are as subject to traditional theft as education is - they can only be taken through domination of self.
Your fantasies don’t necessarily have anything to do with what goes on in a criminal’s mind: just because the idea of being dominated during a rape scenario is arousing to you doesn’t mean domination is what motivates a rapist. (And really, the very fact that you have erotic fantasies about rape shows that, at least for you, rape is sexual anyway.)
Please forgive me for asking, but during that experience, did you form a mind-meld with your assailant? Did he carefully explain what he was doing and why? If not, how did it give you any insight into his motivation?
I’ve never heard of anyone literally having an orgasm from driving fast. (Message board posts like “OMG you’re getting a Ferrari? spooge” don’t count.) You show me that person, and I’ll show you someone for whom reckless driving is a sex crime.
Correlation is not causation, but it’s hard to imagine why someone would choose to rape if his motivation is only to dominate another person. There are easier ways to impose your will on someone, ways that don’t leave a big wad of DNA evidence or present a risk for STDs and paternity suits.
No. You see, sexual gratification is a gain even when control, power, and dominance aren’t involved. It is an end in itself. Therefore, “I want that now and I don’t care about anything else!” is, on its face, a perfectly good theory for the motivations of some rapists.
That really doesn’t make much sense to me. The more likely someone wants money, the more likely they are to mug you for it ( or so I assume; why would a person uninterested in money mug you ? ). The more someone wants you dead, the more likely they are to murder you. The more someone finds children sexually attractive, the more likely they are to molest them.
What makes rape such a special case ? I see no evidence that the idea that rape isn’t primarily about sex ( in most cases at least ) is anything other than a political belief.
Sexual pleasure comes to mind.