^ This.
The OP’s premise is essentially the plot of Out of the Silent Planet by C.S. Lewis - a British everyman in the '30s is abducted by would-be interplanetary privateers and taken to a Utopian planet (ostensibly Mars) where Original Sin never occurred.
I’ve never been a fan of Lewis’ brand of apologetics, but it’s a very creative novel and more maturely written than the Narnia books.
Maybe it was incest, but it was sanctioned incest.
No, Eve was specifically made for Adam. God himself sanctioned their pairing by virtue of the act of Creation. They were a married as any couple in history.
Also, the Bible is clear that sin didn’t happen until eating from the tree. So any sex couldn’t be a sin. God didn’t say anything about them having sex. Disobedience was the sin.
The problems with the Creation Story are plenty, we don’t need to invent new ones.
That raises an interesting question: Did Adam and Eve have sex before the Fall? The Bible doesn’t tell us, but I tend to interpret the line “and they knew that they were naked” as both also suddenly knowing that the other one is sexual attractive, ending the time of innocence before they ate the fruit.
God did the ol’ bait and switcheroo on Adam and Eve. He knew he couldn’t deliver a sustainable paradise for the unwitting couple, so he tricked them into a temporary paradise set in his holy soundstage. God knew full well (he is all knowing after all) that sweet-tooth Adam couldn’t resist a juicy apple. He stacked the odds in his favor.
Had God told Adam and Eve, don’t eat from the Brussel Sprout Plant of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, and enlisted a silver tongued sewer rat to convince Eve to take a bite of the forbidden vegetable, well…that wouldn’t have been so tempting, and God would be left with egg on his face when the couple complied and demanded their prize of eternal paradise. He’d be forced to admit, ah, sorry y’all, Paradise is just make believe…how about a years’ supply of Turtle Wax instead?
God is not unlike a game-show host.
The apple is a maguffin. No Apple eating, no story.
You might as well ask what would have happened if Indiana Jones preferred math class.
See also that one episode of Star Trek, “The Apple”.
~Max
One idea I have is that besides what you said, God was not going to keep doing that forever, but how to prevent future generations to curse you for expelling humans from paradise for no reason?
Solution: make them know for all eternity that it was their fault.
Even in that case I would not curse him, I’m not mad, I’m actually impressed.
I was thinking of the other one, where the chief Oompa-Loompa communed with “God” via antennae sticking out his neck. There was discussion of how the planet and native inhabitants were similar to the biblical garden of Eden, before the fall of man.
~Max
I know but…
Heading out to Eden
Yea brother
Heading out to Eden
Gosh, i assume so. The very first commandment God gave to Adam and Eve was “be fruitful and multiply”. From Genesis 1:
27And God created man in His image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them. 28God blessed them and God said to them, “Be fertile and increase, fill the earth and master it; and rule the fish of the sea, the birds of the sky, and all the living things that creep on earth.”
(Bolding added. Translation from the Jewish publication society “tanach” (what we call the Bible))
Eve and the Serpent would have been cast out and inherited the world for discovering Sin while Adam sat around in Eden eternally.
Their kids probably end up as naga or something like that.
We’re all living it.
How odd that we so often hear that the concept of morality comes from the Bible’s god. The creator made the earth and the garden and the fruit, but he forbade mankind from eating the fruit and gaining a knowledge of good and evil.
It was the serpent, not the creator, who put the moral compass into humanity.
That depends on what “knowledge of good and evil” is supposed to mean.
The only thing that’s clear and obvious to me about the whole Adam & Eve story is that there is no one single clear and obvious meaning that everyone can agree on.
I like the take that Catherynne Valente has on the matter in her novella Comfort Me With Apples. In her imagining of what would happen, Adam is an asshole and the villain of the story. With God’s help, Adam creates a series of Eve’s, eventually killing each one (typically after she eats the apple) due to Adam not being satisfied with her.
This thread is closely related to some questions I’ve been thinking about asking the GD for some time. I don’t this this will be a hijack, but If the OP or mods think it should be its own thread, I’m fine with that.
First, let’s remember that Genesis is not a Christian book, and that common Christian interpretations (e.g., the serpent = Satan) are retcons not in the original text. (I realize most everyone here knows this, but I just wanted to be clear.)
My reading of the Garden of Eden story is that is an allegory for growing up, and that God intended everything to happen as it did (as @Czarcasm and @ASL_v2.0 have suggested).
Anyone who has had children knows that if you tell your kids, “Whatever you do, don’t put jam on the cat,” the next time you see the cat, it will be smeared with jam. So when God told Adam and Eve, “Don’t eat this fruit,” he clearly knew that they would. It was part of the plan.
So I’m extremely puzzled by the Christian view that the Fall (as they call it) was a terrible tragedy, and that but for that, we’d all still be living in the Garden of Eden. Yes, their gloss is also that it had to happen so that Jesus could save us all, but a common Christian perspective is that leaving the garden was a bad thing, and not simply a necessary part of becoming adult human beings.
(I realize, of course, that not all Christians hold these views, and that many, probably including most Christian Dopers, understand the story allegorically, much as I do.)
So my questions for devout Christians, or for those who feel inclined to speak on their behalf, are, How would the story have turned out if neither Adam nor Eve had eaten the fruit? Could/would humanity have lived “without sin” in the garden forever? Is that what God really wanted, but was unexpectedly thwarted by the serpent?
Excuse me that my answer is a little in jest. I’m an atheist, but raised Catholic with a big interest in and liking of the Bible in a literary, mythical and historical sense. Anyway, your scenario would have made the Bible the most boring book ever and human life as dull as that of robots.
This is an attractive interpretation, but I have two objections.
One is that the Biblical account itself doesn’t seem, to my mind, to support it. God genuinely seems to be dismayed that Adam and Eve ate the fruit.
The other is that, if you read the Adam and Eve account this way, what does that do to your interpretation of the rest of the Bible? “You know all those things that God told us not to do? ‘Thou shalt not murder, steal, commit adultery, etc.’ He really wants us to do them!”