What would it take for not tipping to become socially acceptable in North America?

In My Humble Opinion
21

IMHO, the hassle of working out a tip is relatively minor in the scheme of things. Instead I resent that I am forced by this custom to explicitly render a judgment on the quality of service I received (expressed through the size of the tip), and I resent that I in turn will be judged by the server as being generous or a cheapskate (as interpreted through the size of the tip).

I also resent the uncertainty of what’s considered an appropriate amount. Is it 15%? Is it 20%? 25%?
Will I be perceived as a cheapskate if I tip at 15%? Am I wasting my money if I tip at 25%? Depends who you talk to.

You say that, and yes, there are a few assertive people who are willing to leave penny tips when they feel they’ve been wronged. But most people arent’ that confrontational. Frankly, I can’t recall ever leaving a tip less than 15%, even when I’ve felt the service was sub-par. And on top of that, there’s all the other stuff you said:

Putting it all together, it comes to this: tipping is poorly correlated with quality of service.

Here’s an article from the owner of a tipless restaurant, which contains the following:

Studies have shown that tipping is not an effective incentive for performance in servers. It also creates an environment in which people of color, young people, old people, women, and foreigners tend to get worse service than white males. In a tip-based system, nonwhite servers make less than their white peers for equal work. Consider also the power imbalance between tippers, who are typically male, and servers, 70 percent of whom are female, and consider that the restaurant industry generates five times the average number of sexual harassment claims per worker. And that in many instances employers have allegedly misused tip credits, which let owners pay servers less than minimum wage if tipping makes up the difference.

You’ve really never heard of servers confronting diners over shitty tips? I once had a server follow me out to my car to confront me over a shitty tip (it took a second before he realized I wasn’t the stingy bastard he was looking for).

I feel like this sort of math is no big deal, but that’s because I work with numbers all the time. But some people really struggle to do math in their heads. 10% isn’t hard, but now you want me to add two four-digit numbers in my head (to come up with 20%)? And how much do I add/subtract to get it to 18% or 22%? Some of us I can do this with little difficulty, but I suspect there are plenty of folks whose first thought when the bill arrives is “goddamit, where’d I put my calculator?”.

22

Like many things American (guns?) the idea of adding 20% to any service is considered pretty odd by a great deal of the rest of the world.

In theory, the tip is a reward for good service, and in the UK at any rate, that is pretty much how it works. In the US it has become the norm and I doubt that it will change anytime soon.

I never really thought much about it until I went on a cruise. When I looked at the cruise forums, I saw that it was a controversial subject. On a cruise there are three options: Tip at the end, with minor tips to individuals as you go along; add a percentage to the price of the cruise to cover tips, or pay no tips at all.

It became apparent that North Americans tended to favour option 1, Europeans option 2 and Antipodeans, who object to gratuities on the grounds that they are demeaning, option 3.

The consensus in the UK is that a tip is a reward for service above and beyond the basic. The taxi driver who simply takes me to the airport gets no tip, but if they help with the baggage, they may get 10%. Rounding up is pretty common, however, partly to avoid fumbling with small change. The advent of tap-and-pay had done away with even that.

It raises the question: Do we tip because we are pleased with the service, because we feel sorry for the underpaid server, or because it makes us feel good as we do when dropping coins in a beggars bowl.

23

You have created this burden in your mind. Right now you can tip 15% and not worry about it. Doesn’t matter if that matches the level of service, it’s a reasonable attempt to make up for the lack of pay for servers caused by this faulty system. And in a future where servers are getting paid a reasonable wage then you can just not tip at all.

24

In Ontario, the standard minmum wage is currently $14.25 per hour, but there is also a lower “liquor server’s” minimum wage of $13.40 per hour. So if you work in a restaurant that has a liquor license, your employer has to pay you a little less than the full rate, but if the restaurant doesn’t serve alcohol, they have to pay you the full minimum wage, even if you receive tips.

If such a law existed, it would surely be just a petty or administrative offense, not a criminal one. However, your point is taken - as I already said, I would prefer a different solution to actually making it illegal. I understand that some people want to tip and that such a law would be seen by many as an affront to individual liberties.

Honest question: why do you like leaving tips, and if so, how do you personally feel about the fact that electing not to tip is seen in North America as a breach of etiquette?

Monty, Machine_Elf and bob_2 present arguments that cover much of what I find wrong with this system. Generally, I think a consumer should have the right to a simple and efficient payment method, I.E. to be presented with an honest final price. We no longer barter. With a few exceptions, we no longer haggle over prices. In Europe, the with-tax price is listed, not the before-tax price as in North America (this is one thing I would enforce by law). Let’s say I go to a clothes shop and a shop assistant gives me great service beyond just taking my payment (e.g. taking a measurement, giving me advice on a particular product). That person will still not get tipped and no one will think about it. So why should the same customer not have the right to get the full price of what they are expected to pay on the bill that they are given if they go to a restaurant or take a taxi?

I will logically want to pay less rather than more if I have the chance. If I go to a non-tipped outlet of any kind, there is a set list of prices and if I can’t or won’t pay a set price for something, I don’t buy that item. Simple, end of story. When you go to a restaurant, you are presented with a lower price, and it is tempting to pay only the lower price, but you know if you do that, the server is likely to resent you, and you are told you are shortchanging them due to a lower tipped minimum wage. Eliminating the tipping system would eliminate the temptation to pay less than the total actual cost of running the system and be more intellectually honest.

Plus, I resent having to essentially act as a partial payroll clerk. It should be the employer’s responsibility to pay a waiter in full, as it is in most other businesses; I shouldn’t have to make any calculations or be saddled with the worry of whether or not an employee of a company is being paid enough from the prices listed.

25

Everybody finds problems with this system, it’s just a handful of you guys who can’t learn to live with it. It’s just hard for me to understand why of all the problems people face in this society this is the one that matters to you. But I do understand having my own pet peeves, there’s a lot of subjects it’s best for me not to delve into. So I wish you luck in your efforts to change the world, but I’d suggest you focus your animosity on more important subjects that actually affect our lives and the future of mankind, like eliminating the designated hitter rule.

26

Like so many other things, we (Americans) complain that there’s absolutely no other way to do something even though we’re just about the only ones who do it.

Personally, I’m bothered because it shouldn’t be my responsibility to judge the waitstaff’s performance and pay their wages accordingly. I’d much prefer the employer decides how much the employee earns and sets their menu prices to cover it. If people feel obligated to tip on top of that, go ahead, but my tip, in and of itself, shouldn’t be necessary for them to swing rent this month.

27

Check my earlier responses, I absolutely agree that servers should get paid a decent wage. Personally, the rest just doesn’t bother me, but everybody has their own triggers.

28

Your earlier responses are similar to what I said. Pay a living wage and tip if you want to. However, my post was a direct reply to your question ‘why are you bothered by the system’, which I answered, I’m bothered by the system because the system relies on the customer to directly pay the employee (and pay them however much or little they want to). That responsibility should be on the employer, not the customer.
Again, if a customer wants to tip I have no issue with that. But they shouldn’t have to rely on, what is basically, customers writing their paycheck.

29

I hear what you’re saying. Would it still be a problem for you if servers were paid a decent wage though? You would have no responsibility to tip then, you could just pay what’s on the bill.

30

Would what still be a problem? Servers getting paid a decent wage, menu prices reflecting that AND being socially required to tip. Yeah, I’d be annoyed by that.
That would be like being socially required to tip the cashier at the grocery store. You can if you want and some customers do tip cashiers, but it’s an anomaly, not an expectation.
The point of paying the waitstaff a proper wage and charging the customer enough to cover that expense is specifically to take [required] tipping out of the equation.

31

Or is it just the way we’ve always done it? There has to be a real problem with the current way of doing things for any kind of collective change to occur, and the current system, while irksome to a tiny minority in North America, works just fine for most of us.

32

So this goes pretty deep with you, and the OP too I think. Even with decent pay for servers you see any remaining tipping sentiment that would put social pressure on you to conform to be offensive. It’s not what sets me off in particular but I can understand it.

33

I’ve used the self-serve checkouts since they became available. All along I’ve wondered why grocery stores haven’t added a convenience fee for cashier service.

34

You keep leaving out important parts of what I said and adding in things I didn’t say. You’re turning this into a pointless, gotcha based discussion that I’m not interested in having.

35

I’m sorry, I didn’t intend to, I’m trying to understand how you feel about this. And I may understand relative to other things that do bother me. You did mention a social requirement, I thought that was part of what was bothering you.

36

The social requirement is definitely what’s bothering me. Is there any aspect of tipping that is bothering you, TriPolar?

37

There is NO social requirement, except in your mind. What you’re talking about is peer pressure. If you so vehemently don’t like it, don’t do it. Seriously, servers know there are those who won’t/don’t tip. If it’s who you want to be, then be that, absolutely no one is standing in your way.

If you can’t bring yourself to do it, how do you expect to get those, who do find it workable, on board? Sounds silly to me.

I think changing a system that works for most, because you don’t like the peer pressure is a bad plan, You want everybody to do things your way, though yours is very much a minority position. Again, sounds silly.

But I nonetheless wish you good luck with your crusade.

(If only there were alternative food services where tipping wasn’t done, that you could frequent! Y’know, like BKing, McD, etc, etc. )

38

Some interesting reading on the subject of tipping:

39

When I was in Nevada I was part of the first-hires at a new casino that opened. Part of the process was the IRS and department heads negotiating the tips, each department being separate – F&B, pit games, and machine games (where I was). The assumption was and taxes withheld at $6 per hour. That made it easier including the IRS for tax and income calculations.

There was more than one day where we did not reach that but they were rare.

40

I see the tipping system as all benefit to me so I think getting people like me to get rid of it will be tough. I’d prefer if the worst tipped employees made minimum wage but the servers and bartenders that I’ve known well enough to know how much they get paid make well above minimum wage certainly on a weekly basis.

When I’ve had poor service it is clear to everyone at the table that I, or all, of us has had poor service so there has been no social condemnation for leaving a shitty tip. On the other hand when I’ve had fantastic service I like to be able to show my server meaningful appreciation. The other reason I like tipping is does get me better service in situation where I become a regular. I started going to my local coffee shop drive through around Thanksgiving and through Christmas I was tipping 30% now when I pull up to the line they come out a wave at me and start on my order and I’m either able to skip the line or everything is ready for me the second I pay. I tip a regular amount of 10-20% now but they remember the great tips.