As some of you may recall from other threads I’ve participated in or started, I am one of those who resent the social requirement to tip waiters and other people in the service industry and would like to see the tipping system abolished (by that I don’t mean that it should be banned by law or anything, simply that 1) the social expectation should disappear and people who choose not to tip should not under any circumstances be considered to be shortchanging waiters and 2) that any laws which allow lower “tipped minimum wages” be repealed.) Those threads hade shown heated debate between those of us who dislike the practice and those that do. So I would like to ask those who gladly tip waiters and other service providers a few questions in good faith:
Why exactly do you like to leave a tip?
Are you cognizant of the fact that some of us resent that we can’t (not in a legal sense but in a social one / one of etiquette) just pay our tab to the cent and leave but have to “volunteer” 15-20% of the final bill everytime in order not to be resented by/seen as shortchanging the server?
Are you OK with calls by people such as me who wish to reform the system to make tips socially voluntary as opposed to a social expectation/custom/mandatory rule of etiquette, or do you feel we are all just a bunch of lousy complainers who should get with the program - and if so, can you justify your opinion?
I won’t say I like to tip, but I do because of the stupid pay system. I’m well aware that many people hate the practice - my spouse included. In a perfect world, servers would be paid decently, and tips would be a rare reward for exceptional situations.
I’d apply the same to every other job where tipping seems to have become required. In fact, it’s the first item on the agenda when I become Ruler of the World!
Note: I am an American who has moved to Europe, where the tipping culture is radically different.
In the US, I tip(ped) because that’s how the servers get paid.
I understand that people like you resent it, but I don’t care because that’s the current economic system. If you choose not to participate out of some misguided sense of principle, you’re not doing anything to the people who control the system, you’re hurting working people who can’t do anything about it. Which leads to:
I would very much welcome reform to the American food industry wage framework, such that tipping is no longer the bulk of a server’s earnings. Here in Europe, servers get paid a living wage. I’m vacationing in France right now, and we aren’t tipping at all. This is preferable, certainly.
But until the US pulls its head out of its economic ass, it is what it is.
Finally, I predict this thread will be as productive on this topic as every other.
This exactly. I own a company that employs 60+ people. I charge my customers X, I pay my employees Y. It is my responsibility to make enough money so that I can pay my employees and make a profit. It is not my customer’s responsibility to top up my employees.
Until the service industry catches up from the alms for the poor system, I have no choice but to tip.
I like having a way to express my gratitude for someone contributing to my evening’s enjoyment. Also, since we eat out frequently, I like creating a “bond” with the server so that our future meetings do not have to start from scratch.
Cognizant, sure, but do not really care nor dwell on it.
Do whatever floats your boat. Again, I rarely consider these outliers.
Service jobs are horrid. There’s always some petty unpleasant person trying to play social strata games where they’re lording it over the waiter. I recognize the job is terrible. I respect you for doing it. Thank you for the job. I tip more than expected as a result.
Yes I’m cognizant. Until the wage issue is being sorted out, you’re expected to, because our system has cunningly offloaded most of the cost of waitstaff directly onto the customer and not the employer. So be a dear, don’t starve your wait-person.
Lordie, I’m ecstatic. But if you phrased this as, “Everybody should have a living wage,” instead of, “I hate tipping,” then you’d be looking a lot better and you’d have my full support.
Why do I tip? Tipping isn’t quite as required in South Africa as it is in the USA, and people who work at restaurants are generally paid a local living wage.
BUT
South Africa has huge income inequalities, and I’m fairly well-off, so I view tipping (not just waitstaff, also petrol attendants and delivery people) as a way of sharing the wealth directly. And that’s common across people of my social class.
Yes, I’m aware.
I don’t care. I do think you’re (general you) often whiny about it, but you’re not just whiny, and you’re way better than the actual stubborn non-tippers. By all means reform the system, I think that’s great, but the only way you’re going to do that is with mandatory minimum wages for all staff, at a minimum. So that’s quite a broad program, and I wish you all luck.
But even then, people like me who do tip voluntarily are still going to be doing it, and still the cause of social pressure on you, and I see no reason to stop just because the anti-tippers are going to whine. I care more about spreading the wealth than I do about that.
I like making a more significant connection to people who perform jobs that make my life more enjoyable.
I’m aware of people like that, but I don’t consider their opinion very highly. As long as they tip so their wait staff gets paid properly, they can think whatever they want.
You can call for whatever you want. But if your plan shortchanges the wait staff so you can feel better about yourselves then I will certainly oppose it. As long as you’re committed to people getting a living wage we can discuss how to get there. If you plan to remove your role in paying these people without any enforceable way for them to get paid then you’re barking up the wrong tree.
They system isn’t perfect, but it works. I’m sure it can be improved, or even completely reformed. But you’re going to spend the same amount of money either way, so I don’t see the great need to do so.
One reason for basic tipping is my pride. I do not want to feel like I took something I should have paid for. I should not like that more on an ethical basis but actually it’s mostly pride because I like feeling like I can pay for all the things I want. I also like to tip people for doing a very good job for much the same reason. And I like tipping people I know work hard for low wages to help balance out a terribly inequitable socio-economic system.
A lot of my son’s first jobs were as a waiter, and I learned a lot from his perspective; but yeah, they should be paid better. He learned one thing though. Don’t try to sue your employer, even if it’s justified. Word gets around and you’ll have problems getting hired again. Too often I’ve heard this sort of thing. Shut up and work. Reality sucks sometimes.
Tipping servers is how we pay their salaries. It may not be right but it’s the system that exists in this country. Refusing to tip a waiter is no different than deciding you don’t feel like paying somebody for any other job you hired them for after they did the work.
If you don’t feel like paying servers for their work, don’t go to businesses that have servers. Don’t expect people to provide you with a service and then figure you don’t have to pay them. Or expect other customers to make up for the money you chose not to pay.
Don’t argue that businesses should pay their employees more money so you wouldn’t need to tip. You may be right. But businesses don’t do this. You are not excused from paying people because you wish you lived in a different economic system.
I don’t like tipping waiters. I also don’t like paying my rent or my car payment or my grocery bill. But if you want something, you pay for it. That includes having somebody serve you food.
True, but I think responses like this are beside the point. I don’t think the OP or anyone else is disputing this. Rather, the OP is asking why you like the fact that “it’s the system that exists” if in fact you do, and how you feel about others like the OP who resent it.
Personally, I have mixed feelings about tipping waiters. It doesn’t bother me, but if the system changed overnight, that wouldn’t bother me either.
Why might the current system of tipping waiters be a good thing? Well, ideally (i.e. when it works right) it benefits both waiters and customers. The waiters (at least the good ones) benefit because how much they earn correlates with how hard they work and how well they do their job. The customers benefit because they have some choice and agency in how much they pay. That’s assuming you feel that the option to go above and beyond if you choose to do so (if you can afford it and/or think the service is particularly good) is a benefit; I do, but not everybody does.
To those who resent the current system, I would say: you’re welcome to do whatever you can to change the system. But IMHO feeling resentful is a waste of emotion: you’re just making yourself feel bad for no good reason.
I am in the UK where tipping is not a requirement, although the dreaded “service charge” needs watching out for.
when we go out to eat I tip for service which is above and beyond what any diner would expect. When we had small children, some waitstaff were really helpful and others no for example.
These days, with just me and Mrs Bob, I confess that a pretty waitress who smiles a lot is more likely to get a tip than a competent guy.
I would certainly like the system to be changed so that tipping was unnecessary. That’s across the board, in every instance where tipping is customary.
That has nothing to do with my tipping people who depend on tips in the current system. Why in the world should it? The current system is wrong is millions of ways but I’d be the ass if I pretended those wrongs didn’t exist just because I’d change them in a perfect system.
Does the OP resent tipping? Does the OP do anything to change the system by activism, or writing to representatives, or donating to groups working to end tipping? Show me your work product and I’d care about your resentment. Otherwise, no.
Like others, I don’t enjoy living in a tipping world. I’m am, however, perfectly willing to tip without complaint while living in this world. Currently, I have plenty of money and I assume the waitstaff employees don’t. Tipping generously is a very small step towards helping them out a bit, and showing respect for their efforts. Even when I was less fortunate financially, I never resented tipping.
It typically wouldn’t cross my mind that some people resent being “forced” to tip. I would have assumed everyone understands that the cost of eating at a restaurant (in the U.S.) is the cost of the food, plus tax and the tip. I don’t think people resent paying for gas just because they’ve already paid for their car.
I’m happy that people like the OP wish to reform the system. I would hope they do so by supporting legislation improving compensation for the workers, rather than by not tipping. I would not mind one bit living in a world where tipping was “socially voluntary.”
While I won’t say I like tipping I’m so used to it that it doesn’t bother me.
Because I know that without a tip the waitstaff won’t be paid a living wage. In light of the difficulties waitstaff had because of the pandemic this later year, since I’ve gone back to eating at restaurants on occasion I’ve been tipping more generously. And I won’t lie, I feel pretty good about tipping more generously.
Sure. Truth be told I’d rather just pay the bill as is and walk out.
I imagine being an employee who relies on tips can be stressful because you never know from day-to-day or week-to-week how much you’ll be paid. I’m perfectly fine with requiring restaurants to pay their waitstaff the state’s minimum wage.
That wasn’t the impression I got from the OP. I felt they weren’t suggesting changing the system of how servers got paid. They just wanted the option of opting out of the system.
Perhaps if we framed it as a question of which system you preferred:
Services are cheaper. But you are expected to pay servers 15-25% of the price as part of their income.
You are not expected to pay servers anything. But prices for services are 15-25% higher.
What I do not feel is an acceptable option:
Services are cheaper. Other people pay servers 15-25% of the price as part of their income. But I don’t have to pay this.
Yeah, the OP comes across as someone who just doesn’t want to be seen as an ass when he doesn’t tip because he doesn’t want to spend the money. I don’t know what his magical ideas are to “reform the system,” but walking out of a place without tipping is not the way to do it. The business won’t care, the only ones affected by that are the waitstaff.
OP, the people who would truly choose to spend more money if they didn’t have to are going to be a small minority. Sure you’ll have some who would leave a large tip just because they want to but most people don’t like tipping, we just do it because that is what is expected and is part of the bill when eating out. I don’t like paying tax on food either, but I still have to do it. You seem to be under the impression that were tipping to be completely done away with, that the base price of the food would stay the same. It wouldn’t. It makes no difference to my wallet if I pay $10 plus a $2 tip for a burger, or just a flat $12 with no tip.
This is an interesting question. My first reaction is that the second option is better, but thinking about it more, I’m not so sure. Under the first option, all of the increase goes to the employee. Under the second, I would guess the employee gets more base pay, but probably less than they would get from tips.
So, back to the OP, the current system gives the wait staff a share of the gross income a restaurant brings in. I doubt most restaurant owners would do that in a non-tipping world.
Having the server’s income built into the price would make server salaries more dependable. It would make it possible for customers to more easily determine how much they are paying and adjust their spending habits accordingly. (I believe in Europe, sales taxes are also included in the price so the price you see is what you pay.) And it would eliminate the issue of free riders.
The downside is that I’ve heard numerous Europeans say they are surprised to see how much better service is in America when they travel here. Let’s face it; financial incentives work. Servers are generally going to work harder if they are aware that a significant portion of their income is being paid directly by the customer. If servers got paid the same for doing a half-assed job, many of them would do a half-assed job.