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Like Steve Martin’s character in “My Blue Heaven,” I don’t believe in tipping. I believe in over-tipping.
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I have a very low opinion of non-tippers and/or meager tippers. You have been done a service by someone so you didn’t have to. They have personally interacted with you, and hopefully made your experience a better one. They should be rewarded for doing so.
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Definitely “B,” and I feel no need to justify that choice to anyone. I’ll still tip, even when waitrons get paid decent wages. I like tipping.
But what does work harder mean? And what is their job? One of the side effects of tipping being so important is that waitstaff can become intrusive when all you want to do is have a meal, not a conversation. I am in the camp of the people who does not like tipping because then the whole thing becomes a performance from the waitstaff that they have to do in order get enough money to make a living. It reinforces the power differential they have not only vs management, but also vs the customers. If you want a good tip, then you don’t just have to do your job, you have also have to perform, so having a bad day is not allowed even if you are doing the required duties of taking orders and bring back food.
Also, to counter your anecdote about Europeans talking about how much better the service is in the US, I have not heard anyone from Japan say the same thing, and there tipping is not only not expected it causes outright confusion and can have people chasing after you to give you your money back.
//i\\
As an American who has relocated to Europe, I can confirm the service here is just fine.
The all-in cost of your meal at a full service restaurant shouldn’t change. I normally tip 20% for expected service. So, if my bill is $100, than I leave a $20 tip. Total bill $120.
Many restaurants in our market have been moving to an automatic service charge of 20-22% which is shared amongst all of the staff at the restaurant. So my bill is $100 + $20 service charge, so I pay $120.
What I expect we may evolve to is where employees get higher wages from the restaurant they work for and the price of the items on the menu will generally increase by about 20%. Tipping will not be encouraged much like most of Europe is already. My bill will be around $120.
In the OP’s previous thread on tipping, he refers to being “threatened with social censure and emotionally blackmailed.” So, yeah, it’s clear that he’s mainly interested in finding a way to stiff servers without being made to feel bad about it.
Because ethically speaking, if I voluntarily participate in a commercial system in which tipping is customary, and in fact necessary in order to provide servers with decent compensation, then the tip is part of what I owe for the goods and services I’ve received. I don’t like cheating people out of what I owe them, so I “like” leaving a tip.
Yes. The fact that some people resent tipping is a very well-known phenomenon.
If you/we reform the food-service wage system first, so that servers are paid decent wages exclusive of tipping, and THEN call for abolition of the social expectation of tipping, I’m just fine with that.
But the other way around’s not cool. If you really don’t want to tip in circumstances where tipping is customary and an important part of a worker’s expected compensation, then stay out of those circumstances. Otherwise, don’t selfishly demand that you should be exempt from the burden of tipping even though the server’s compensation still depends on tips.
I don’t feel like answering questions.
Here’s something many people don’t consider when they want to abolish tipping. Let’s say that the wage for tip earners is $2 an hour and a shift is from 11am to 6pm. The first hour, 11-noon, the restaurant is closed and the employee is doing opening work. During the course of the shift, the employer pays the employee $14 and makes, let’s say $600 in food and drinks. Let’s say the server earns 15% of that in tips and let’s call that an average shift. So the server is making $14 + $90 = $104/7 = $14.86/hour.
Now. We’re going to abolish tipping. We’re going to say that the employer has to offer $15/hour to get enough servers to work at his establishment. So out of his pocket for that same 7 hour shift, he now has a labor cost of $105 instead of $14. Is he going to take that out of his profits? No, he is not. What happens? The employer must raise the prices of the food and drink. Now, you might think that he’s just going to raise everything 15% which was what our employee was earning, but he’s going to start thinking about that hour when there are no customers and the server is doing opening chores. Where’s THAT money coming from. And what about those afternoons when it’s just slow and you only make $300 in sales. You’re still having to pay that server $15/hour even though they’re not serving anything.
If you’ve ever worked in a restaurant or bar, you KNOW that if an employer is going to have to shell out $, he’s going to raise the prices by $$. You think you can’t afford to eat out now, just get rid of tipping and see how much more you pay for food at say iHOP. Go up the chain to a four star restaurant where the wait staff are used to making $50-$100/hour and I’d bet you the prices double. If they didn’t, then you’d most likely notice a HUGE difference in the quality of the staff.
I tended bar and a guy came in with a $5 bill and bought two $1.75 mugs of beer. Then he wanted a third one, but wanted ME to pay the additional quarter out of my tips because he couldn’t afford it. He was poor and I didn’t understand what it was like. What was he supposed to do if he wanted to go out and drink with his friends? Boo hoo! Eat peanut butter sandwiches and save your money. The fact was, bartending was my 2nd job that I did so I could—guess what? Go do fun stuff with my friends. So, yeah, cheap boy could go pound sand.
I tip because it gets results.
When I pull into my local watering hole, before I get in the door, my preferred table is ready, a fresh beer is sitting there along with a keno ticket and a pencil, because they know I like to play keno. Although they may be busy with other customers, my beer never runs dry. No waiting to catch the eye of the server. And when the bill comes they will often have ‘forgot’ to add a drink or two.
On paper I am a jerk because I always write zero in the tip column of my debit receipt and leave the tip in cash, because whatever goes on the official ticket is taxable income, they appreciate that.
I dated a few waitresses and bartenders before I got married and learned how important tips are to their daily lives. Mom was also a waitress. Day to day living is done with tips, the paycheck is probably minimum wage and goes for major bills, but they live on the tips, that is what feeds the family.
This is at least the second thread by themapleleaf about tipping. Even 3 or 4 more and you still will not understand. That is fine. We could have all businesses pay their service people a living wage or better.
Do you really want a $45 hamburger and a $15 beer? Keep up the crusade.
I totally agree but in something as competitive as the restaurant biz you’re offering a meal for $20 while your tip-dependent competitor offers the a similar meal for $16. I would bet too many folk will choose the latter even if you advertise, We pay our servers a living wage – no need to tip.
I was under the impression that in countries where waiters make a decent wage it’s actually considered an insult to give them a tip. This isn’t true?
Yeah, in France, especially in Paris, they can get really sniffy with you. They take pride in their professionalism and regard tipping as an attempted bribe.
This is why there are no restaurants in Europe.
Here’s something many people don’t consider when they want to abolish tipping. Let’s say that the wage for tip earners is $2 an hour and a shift is from 11am to 6pm. The first hour, 11-noon, the restaurant is closed and the employee is doing opening work. During the course of the shift, the employer pays the employee $14 and makes, let’s say $300 in food and drinks. Let’s say the server earns 15% of that in tips and let’s call that an average shift. Now the server has to do the tip out, which takes away 25% of their tips. So the server is making $14 + $33.75 = $47.75/7 = $6.82/hour.
A living wage in Cape Town is not the same as in Paris. And it is just a living wage, I would never call it decent.
I don’t tip in France.
So: Nosh spoke with Mitrani who said that in addition to some complaints from customers about the mandatory service charge, the surcharge has made it difficult for a small business like hers to survive. “For me, financially, it became too hard,” she said. According to Mitrani, although 100% of the surcharge collected was distributed to employees in their paychecks, it was included in her revenue and was, therefore, subject to payrolls taxes, insurance costs and other fees that came out of her bottom line.In addition, Mitrani said that the recent and upcoming minimum wage increases (the next increase from $13.25 to $15 will happen in October) have made it impossible to continue the 20% charge.
From here.
Apparently a number of folks didn’t want to pay 20% extra instead of tipping, which implies to me some weren’t in the habit of tipping 20% (very common standard instead of 15% in the pricey Bay Area). I don’t have much sympathy for that. But I kinda understand the owner’s issue of going against the grain in an expensive area being problematic. If you’re going to abolish tipping as a wage support system it probably has to be more systematic than a few restaurants trying to go it alone.
- As a thank you for good service and to encourage as good or better service in the future.
- Am aware but couldn’t care less. If you don’t want to tip don’t. I’m perfectly OK not tipping for poor service since, if nothing else, that waiter should be encouraged to find a different profession they were better suited for.
- Perfectly OK with it. I think your delusional but I’m ok with you working for whatever way you think will make the world better. Even if every server was paid a living wage I’d still tip in order to get better service if we frequented the same resteraunt I would get better service than you and you’d be mad that because you didn’t tip you were viewed as a cheapskate and given lower quality service because of it.
No, you have the wrong impression. Although I resent the social requirement to tip, I still do it because the system is set up that way, and I did not imply that I would like to justify not tipping under the current system, only that I want the whole current system changed. If you had read my OP carefully, you might have noticed that I explicitly wrote that I want BOTH the current social expectation to tip abolished AND lower tipped minimum wages, where such legally operate, made illegal.
I am not under that impression at all. I realize that for tipping to go away, prices will have to be raised. However, I would prefer it that way, because of a variety of reasons. Even if I ended up paying exactly the same amount as with a tip, it would be more intellectually honest. It would also be simpler - I would be presented with a final price. I would have one less calculation to do. You’re the employer, it should be your responsibility to handle your employee’s entire payroll and not download part of it on the customer. Just like in any shop (or e.g. fast food restaurant), there is a set price and you either pay it or you don’t buy the product or service. (Just for the record, I also dislike the fact that in North America, the law allows stores to quote the pre-tax price. I would require stores to put tax-included prices, as is the law in Europe with VAT. Makes life simpler and creates a truer impression of the final price before making the final purchase).
Only I have explicitly said that I would repeal laws that allow lower minimum wages for tipped employees and I never said I don’t tip under the current system (I do). This thread is not about looking for a way to excuse not tipping under the current system (except in places where waiters’ take-home pay is always at least the same minimum wage as non-tipped employees get). It’s about asking those who like tipping why they like the practice and finding out whether they would be cool with reforming the system so that both waiters receive a due wage and that the social requirement to tip is abolished.
Only the article you quoted isn’t really relevant to my questions, because (as I said above) I never suggested that we should stop tipping under the current system, but that we should guarantee higher wages (at least the full minimum wage from the employer, irrespective of whether or not you re getting tips on top of that) IN ADDITION TO making tipping socially voluntary (plus your article generalizes things. There are some jurisdictions such as California and Alberta that mandate everyone receive full minimum wage, even if they get tips).
The French managed to do get rid of compulsory tipping without making prices absolutely exorbitant. They added a requirement of putting a service line item to the bill. As a result, nowadays, people in France can get away with rounding up the change or even not tipping at all. I’m from Canada and we tend to tip less than Americans (a lot of us would certainly balk at the notion of a 25% tip) because the disparities between the tipped and non-tipped minimum wage tend to be smaller. And it doesn’t mean that prices in restaurants are over the top there. They’re not. I now live in the Czech Republic, where there is a tipping culture, but it’s enough basically to round off the bill or, if that would be excessively little, to add 10 or 20 Czech Crowns to the bill. 10% would be more than enough here. So to those who say that in the USA making tips completely optional couldn’t be done without raising prices to exorbitant levels, I don’t believe you. I think there just isn’t enough will to change things.
I do something similar - try to tip in scenarios where tipping is potentially expected. Restaurants, deliveries, coffee shops, hotels, etc. I’m not sure how much I tip in a year - I’d guess I eat out, say, 4 times a week, perhaps for a average tip of $5 each time? Just counting for myself, there, but I’m not really sure - I might not be remembering the before times accurately. Add in the other misc stuff above, and maybe $2500 a year.
But here’s the thing. I really kind of hate doing it. I think a lot of the system is unfair to employees in tipped professions. Feeling nickeled and dimed is just annoying to me - paying $2500 a year is no big deal, but dribbling it out a few bucks here and there is strangely psychologically taxing (I realize for others, the opposite may be true.) I would very much like for the whole system to go away and be replaced by something that is more fair and more profitable for the workers.
I leave a tip because I feel my servers deserve it and because the system requires it.
I have no problem changing things so that tips are no longer required. But that won’t happen in my lifetime.
My feeling about people who resent the system would put this in the pit.
What was the minimum (before tips) paid to servers twenty years vs, what they are paid now (before tips)?