No doubt this has been thrashed out on SD before, but let’s have it again: tipping is daft – it slows down countless transactions and is often unfair (e.g. tipping the bar staff for every drink versus never tipping staff in fast-food restaurants).
The arguments I’ve heard to defend the practice, and that Cecil touches on, are clearly unsound. “Prices would be higher if we didn’t tip” – like how all other goods and services work, you mean, with a transparent pricing structure?
Obviously I’m not against people giving extra cash at their own discretion. What I’m against is restaurants putting a service charge on the bill, as well as the social stigma that seems to be established for not tipping.
For the record I follow tipping convention, but I resent it.
Think of it as a sales commission. The salesman does a good job, and gets a sound commission. If the salesman does a poor job, no commission, or a poor one.
They have to put a specific service service charge on larger groups (usually 6 or more people) for obvious reasons.
I challenge anyone to try and wait tables professionally, and then come back and talk to us about tipping.
I have heard that tipping is strongly frowned upon in New Zealand - not sure about Australia. The locals just don’t want to get on that treadmill.
How much of the column is current and how much is 1976 (original date)? IIRC, 10% seemed to be standard until sometime in the 1980’ when people started suggesting 15%. Is 20% still restricted to the NYC area?
One problem with this, of course, is that it results in an imbalance. As OP says, fast food places have no tips; whereas one mid-scale restaurant manager I know complained that her serving staff made substantially more than her, especially the bar staff, especially if you considered that the amounts are cash and often under-reported on income tax.
Another problem is that many places have tip-sharing policies. (In some places, management also takes a portion of the tips.) This means that the underperformers reap the benefit of the others’ work. OTOH, the quality of the experience also depends on factors the waiting staff have no influence over.
My acquantance’s restaurant took 2% of total bill to be shared monthly over the kitchen staff; so the size of tip was irelevant and good service did bring rewards; but they often did adjustments for certain ethnic groups which ignored tipping protocols, rather than impose a manadatory policy for large parties.
But they aren’t really salespeople in the sense of actually making a sale. Waiters are rarely involved in the decision of whether to eat at a restaurant, and once there, most people are going to make purchases.
I’ve never been a waiter, so perhaps I do underestimate how demanding a job it is.
But then I’ve worked many jobs that were very demanding, and did not give tips.
Of course I may benefit in ways that are hidden from the customer (bonuses, overtime pay etc), but “casual” work can reward in this way too
e.g. I’ve worked in bars before where we received bonuses.
There are a lot of problems inherent the tip system. But it has its good points. You control the cost, which you should do based on the quality of the service. It makes more businesses practical by reducing the fixed costs of labor. Tipping well may get you even better service the next time. And as for resenting it, why? You probably pay less for things than you would without tipping.
As for the person who first posted the question to Cecil with regards to tipping making no sense for cabs:
Are all cab rides the same?
What if the driver takes you a much quicker way than you or most any other driver knew?
What if the ride was smooth?
And the car immaculate?
And s/he took the trouble to put together an MP3 jukebox and let you pick a genre of music you prefer to listen to?
And had pleasant banter?
And s/he made you laugh after you got into the cab angry or sad?
What’s the difference in taxi rides?? COME ON!
The only problem is: occasionally a small minority of soulless weasels skip out on a tip because they figure what is the consequence. It’s against the law in NYC, but most competent cabbies will mete out publicly humiliating and bitingly sarcastic and personal criticism if you choose to do so.
But most good cabbies will accept little or no tip if you apologize that you are unable to do so due to circumstances beyond your control, and will accept verbal complements in its place. They understand what it is like to be in a financial jam; after all, you think most want to be driving a cab in stop and go urban areas with heavy traffic??
P.S. Tipping a waiter makes no sense if it is a self-serve buffet. Savvier restaurant managers will add a flat service fee or increase the plate charge and base pay when that happens.
But if the buffet was a humdinger, it would make sense to tip the chef, if not with money than at least a complement…
I don’t know if you’d call it “professionally” but I’ve worked in hospitality (bars) and in cafes (which serve short-order meals) before and I’m against tipping.
Then again, I do live in Australia, where hospitality staff get paid properly in the first place…
I’m controlling the cost in that I am obligated to pay the price in the menu, plus I’m basically obligated to pay 15-20% more (and why is that percentage going up?), or else people will say I’m a jerk.
Here in London the majority of restaurants have service charges on the bill. Typically it’s 12.5%, but you don’t know until you get the bill.
And let’s say you get terrible service. Is it easy to avoid paying that charge? Not at all, as it’s not perceived as being under your discretion. It functions like a tax, but one that you couldn’t know the size of in advance.
What makes you think that?
Forget buffets, if I have a pleasant dinner generally it is mostly due to the chef, and (s)he’s the one I would most like to tip, if I really did feel the urge to give extra.
Indeed the existence of buffets shows that the waiting staff aren’t actually doing that essential a service.
(Yeah I know, few parts of the dining experience are essential. But put it this way: given the choice between paying service charge and having to pick up my own plates from the kitchen, and pour my own wine, I know which I’d do :))
You control the amount of the tip (in the US anyway). I overtip when I get anything better than average service, and undertip when it doesn’t meet that standard (and I probably won’t return to that restaurant). But you can tip whatever way you want.
I wouldn’t like that system either.
Again, I was speaking of the US. But it’s not like a tax very much. You are directly paying the cost of a service you used.
Tipping reduces fixed costs for employers. The staff is paid at a rate lower than it would be if there was no tipping. To make enough money, the staff has to get tips. If business is light at a restaurant, the staff makes less. If the staff were to be paid a rate that precludes tipping, the costs to the restaurant would go up even when business was light, and revenue down.
I don’t think it’s an ideal system. It’s just not totally bad. And here in the US restaurants will include a fixed gratuity for large parties. But I think in most localities the rate has to be explicitly stated in advance.
Forget buffets, if I have a pleasant dinner generally it is mostly due to the chef, and (s)he’s the one I would most like to tip, if I really did feel the urge to give extra.
Indeed the existence of buffets shows that the waiting staff aren’t actually doing that essential a service.
(Yeah I know, few parts of the dining experience are essential. But put it this way: given the choice between paying service charge and having to pick up my own plates from the kitchen, and pour my own wine, I know which I’d do :))
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I’ve heard from another source that you can refuse to pay, but you must leave contact details in case they want to sue you for the amount later.
Tipping is absurd. Pay staff minimum wage or above. Scrap all tips and service charges. Yes, prices will go up, but so what? You pay either way. Tipping is not good for restaurants as patrons will factor in tips and order less food. It doesn’t benefit them at all, and simply creates the potential for disagreements and resentment. If a tip is expected, why would a server try harder to please patrons? There is no good argument for tipping.
In Hong Kong, where I live, almost every restaurant has a 10% service charge. In every case, the service charge is simply an addition to the restaurant’s revenue - the staff get none of it. This has three major effects: 1) it increases complexity in paying and administration, 2) it makes patrons feel cheated (why not just add 10% to all prices?) and 3) it results in less tipping, as sophists will reason that there is no need, having paid a service charge that they know the staff don’t get. Oh, and there’s no minimum wage in HK. On average, servers will get about HK$8,000 a month (US$1,000).
Make service charges and tipping illegal. Introduce a working minimum wage for everyone.
And campp - a sales commission is an incentive paid by the employer. This is a better system than tipping, as it doesn’t involve the customers. As you can see from some of the posts above, tipping is an issue for many people.
I worked at a job for 13 years that required me to live out of a suitcase at motels for most of the summer season. I got reimbursed for meals in my “expenses” check, so I would use the money I normally would have spent on food at home for tipping purposes. I was always a good tipper, for that reason. I always got excellent service the second time, and thereafter, that I was at that particular eatery. Tipping has it’s good points.
I’m a little baffled by the resentment towards fixed percentage tipping, when it is known in advance. Then you know what everything costs up front anyway. And you wouldn’t pay sales tax on the tip either. Do you have any idea what the complaint is? And yes, good tipping leads to good service, for you and for others too, because it provides the servers incentive.
That’s one of the reasons for the love of tipping in the U.S.: it avoids sales tax. The other, and probably bigger reason, is that it enables the avoidance of income tax, since those tipped will under-report their tip income.
You do not tip at fast food places because they do not provide any direct service for you to reward. Running the cash register is not a direct service. You order at the station, you pick up the food on the tray, you get your own beverage and refills, you get your own napkins, and you clean your table (at least you’re supposed to). Okay, they will wipe down the tables and mop the floors, but that is not a direct service, that is general cleanliness.
While at self-serve buffets you are getting your own food, typically the waitstaff provides drink refills, and will get you extras. I have occassionally had them get me a steak cooked the way I like it rather than have to stand by the counter waiting for it to be done. They also usually bus the tables. I generally tip $1 at those places - it’s not quite 15%, but it acknowledges they took care of the few things to make my experience easier. If they don’t keep my beverage refilled, though, then that number goes down.
Mijin said:
Not the first time, but they can influence whether you will eat there a second time.
TriPolar said:
In theory, that’s the way it works. You tip based upon service, and you decide how much. That tipping provides incentive. In practice, though, it doesn’t always work that way, because tipping is sometimes seen as an expectation. “You’re supposed to tip 15%” or now going to 18% and 20%. So if the waitstaff expects that much, then instead of ensuring they do a good job to earn that amount, they do a mediocre (or lousy) job and then get pissed you don’t tip them.
Which is fine if you only eat at that restaurant once. But I tend to eat at the restaurants in my area repeatedly. I mean, I live there, I eat out a lot, so I’m always returning to the same places. Now what happens when mr pissy pants decides I didn’t tip him enough last time? Does he shape up his act to earn a better tip, or does he spit in my food? (He better not spit in my food - if I find out I’m raising hell.) What if I think a good tip is 15%, but the waiter thinks that’s only average?
TriPolar said:
If it is a fixed percentage, it ceases to be a “tip” and is simply a part of the expected price. It ceases to be an incentive because it is a set amount. Spectacular job? 12% Lousy job? 12% Where’s the incentive?
