How feasible would it be to outlaw tipping?

  • something along the lines of “Payment can’t exceed the initially agreed upon price”. In this thread, a few people admitted that they tip consistently rather than fluctuate the added percentage based on performance. I heard the same from many, and suspect most people take that easy road rather than conduct a mini evaluation at the end of the meal and then pay accordingly. Thus, the hypothetical captialistic benifit of tips encouraging good service is moot, and most of the time, tips are based on the tippers themselves. There are just plain good tippers and bad tippers. A serviceman is then subject to erratic rewards independent of his performance; that’s the opposite of what capitalism is supposed to be about. That also brings about the ironic situation of the customer himself being evaluated by his tip, rather than the service provider. That leads to prejudice and discrimination (of the worst kind, the kind that affects me) towards customers since the customer can’t be properly evaluated until the end of the experience (this was the subject of the referenced thread). Besides that, many have balked at the fact that the standard tipping percentage has raised from 15% to 20%, and the fact that tip jars have sprung up everywhere. It seems an arms race in tipping has arisin, with customers giving more than expected, and then service people expecting more from customers. Then, because tipping is by definition unstated, there are those who will be naturally left in the dark about how much, and if at all, they should give in addition to the stated price. They can’t look it up somewhere - it’s unstated - and they can’t ask the serviceman himself for obvious reasons. It’s way too much mess and stress for what’s supposed to be a smooth, valuable exchange for both parties invovled.
    So anyway, would it be possible to outlaw tipping somewhere in the U.S.? Maybe as state, or just a city? If they can ban smoking in restaurants, I’m sure some populace somewhere might agree on banning tips, right?

How would you enforce the ban?

The food service induustry–which accounts for most tipped workers–has more effective lobbyists than people who hate to tip.

When I’m ambushed by a situation where I don’t have any cash and didn’t know it was a tipping situation, I just apologize profusely.

i thought this was gonna be about cows. i am so dissappointed.

tosses a few pennies, [size=1]{the insult tip}[/size] :wink:

…well, I was kind of hoping the news of a tipping ban would stop customers from doing it.

They could set up secret shoppers that sting tip-accepting waiters the way they sting waiters that don’t check IDs, but that might be too drastic. Or, they could enforce it the same way the enforce smoking bans (how do they enforce those)? One obvious change would be that restaurants obviously wouldn’t be able to pay their staff tipping wages anymore, as payroll is reported to the government, and thus they’d have to pay their staff a more marketable price in order to recruit them. Of course, they waiters could still expect and accept tips from customers, but far fewer customers would do so knowing that the waiters are fully paid.

Haven’t you repetedly posted that you don’t tip well, if at all?(And apologies if I have you confused with another poster) If that’s the case, how is this “predjudice” unjustified in your case? (Assuming that it exists at all-how are they to know you’re a poor tipper until the meal is over?) Also, if your tipping performance is dismal compaired to the general public’s, doesen’t this indicate that it’s YOU who should change, not everyone else? Or are you trying to ensure that your poor tipping does not stand out from the crowd by making everyone into bad tippers?

Customer: “Does your company permit tipping?”

Clerk: “No, but if you do, I’ll lie like hell to save you!”
I have noticed that restaraunts which pool tips, so that all employees receive an equal share of all tips, have significantly poorer service than the conventional kind. This difference is noticable enough that I will avoid restaraunts that post a “tip pooling” policy.

…no. I usually tip at least 20% during the few times I eat out and am paying. I’ve posted once that I avoid places with tip-jars altogether. Not patronizing a place at all doesn’t count as not tipping, since I don’t even recieve a service in the first place.

Well, did you read at least the title of the thread referenced?

You have my apologies. I obviously had you confused with someone else. I was not casting any aspersions at you, but rather at the poster(s) I confused you with.

I assume you’re talking about the “are blacks poor tippers thread”? I have my own ideas about that, but I suspect that they would be hard to explain here, and I’d likely be dogpiled, so I will let them go for now, suffice it to say that I never assumed that anyone was going to tip poorly based upon their skin color when I worked for tips.

Well, for starters you could require that restraunts pay minimum wage to their employees and thereby not, well, require tipping.

That seems like a logical first step in outlawing.

I was waiting for someone to say that O_o

An obvious first step to eliminating tipping is eliminating the need to tip. (Un?)fortunately, I think most parties are happy with the arrangement - management pays a pittance, and servers, as far as I understand it in most cases, well paid in tips.

Unless people stop paying them, the system will stay.

pizzabrat reminds me of that dude on Reseviour Dogs…

I was also going to say - even Mr. Pink tips.

Not feasible but I’m for it. Tipping at restaurants, for example, allows the restaurant to post prices that are lower than what is actually paid. It also allows them to underpay the help on the grounds that “You’ll make it up in tips.”

I think that business should pay a decent wage and charge the customer an advertised price that will allow them to pay that wage. All open and aboveboard with no hidden costs, kickbacks and other such methods of the shady sort.

When I waited tables in Alabama, oh so many years ago, I believe that we still had to be paid min. wage if our wages + tips did not equal that amount. Now, it’s entirely possible that in a good week one might not report all their tips, and management would look the other way - and that in a crap week, if you didn’t make min wage (which never happened), you’d say you did. Not that either of those happened, of course - Just sayin’ is all.

Not necessarily - if some customers tip or do not tip independent of the level of service, all they are communicating is that the level of service is not of great importance to them (judging by their expenditure or lack thereof). So, the consumer is still making his opinions known in the marketplace, perfectly in line with capitalism.

But there is no feedback to the employee as to what should have been done that wasn’t or what was done that shouldn’t have been to make the costomer who didn’t leave the tip satisfied. And there is certainly no direction as to what to do to make the next customer happy.

As an employee training and disciplining system, it stinks.

What does “O_o” mean?

It’s obviously feasible, since there is no tipping in Japan (and no doubt other countries as well). So it’s at least possible. Whether it would ever happen in the U.S. is another question. It does seem unlikely.

Personally, I loathe tipping. I do it, of course, but I think it’s a stupid custom. I don’t believe it provides any incentive whatsoever for servers to work harder. Servers seem to feel a sense of entitlement to the tip (and really they should, because you know the management is factoring it in as part of the salary), and a customer who doesn’t tip well is frowned upon, even if the customer felt the service was poor. I don’t blame the server, or course. I find that for the most part, they do a fine job, and anyone who can’t handle the job isn’t going to last long anyway. The simple incentive of “do your job or get fired” is more than sufficient; tipping is just redundant. But things are structured in a way that tipping is necessary because it is expected as part of the server’s salary. As mentioned before, the only real result is to allow restaurants to print prices on their menus that are seemingly lower than the actual cost. But every restaurant has the same advantage, so there’s really no point to that either. They should just charge what the food really costs, and pay the servers more. Less hassle for everyone. But I agree it’ll probably never happen in the U.S.

After the huge opening paragraph to the OP my eyes glazed over and I haven’t paid appropriate attention to the rest of the posts in the thread. Sorry.

Here in Australia tipping is discouraged. It is discouraged simply because management pays staff above minimun wage for services rendered. The notion is that service is the motive for staff’s activities, not profit. I would guess that there’s a lesson to capitalism in that, that is that profit is not the only motive for doing a great job and that excellent service is its own reward.

This is a solution looking for a problem. I believe the vast majority of the people involved Customer, Server, Management are generally pleased with the way the system works. Customer gets the feeling of control over how much he/she tips. Server gets a sufficient amount of pay through the base salary + tips, and feels he/she has control over the tip amount (good service=higher tip) Management only has to deal with a small server cost and doesn’t have to change prices to reflect higher labor cost.

Considering that there is a huge infrastructure already in place supporting the wage+tip structure, you’re going to need a lot more than a few people who aren’t thrilled with the system to make a change. You’d have to illustrate massive problems that require wholesale changes to tax and labor laws, and all the local changes to reset pricing to include higher labor cost.