Mr. Pink?
I fully understand that definition. However, as others said, the server probably helps you decide whether to keep returning. They might suggest specials or upcharges. They might be compensated for doing so (they do here). What I really meant was that ALL employees of any company are salespeople. Some are much more visible and influential than others.
What pisses me of is when tipping well gives you better service. That means that the server had the ability to give me better service in the first place, but did not. That means they were not doing their job to the best of their abilities, which should have meant they’d be fired and replaced by the large number of unemployed people who would gladly do the job well the first time.
I mean, paying someone to treat you well is called bribery anywhere else. Something that is generally considered immoral.
Oh, and the best waiters I’ve ever had work at buffet restaurants, where they don’t generally get tips, or in places where they will get fired for not doing their best in the first place. I don’t think I’ve seen any of the other places win the best server awards. (Awards which allow them to push for a pay increase. None of them make only minimum wage.)
Arrrgh! Correcetd by the grammar-nazis! Atucally, “…more than she did.” is correct.
However, she was continuously chasing them to serve the customers, taking out food they were too daft to notice, or too busy chatting to attend to tables. Correcting bills because they couldn’t enter an order correctly, and dealing with customer complaints. Oh, and chasing them to clean their tables in a timely manner, because who wants to look at the next table full of garbage all through dinner?
Yet, she made less than them, especially the pouty lazy ones who only deigned to work the bar side with the high tips. She didn’t even participate in the tip pool, because if the management took and distributed tips it would qualify as “pay” to be reported, taxed, etc. Whereas if a volunteer from the workforce handled it, it was a cooperative action by the workers, not the employer.
Some employees were excellent, some should have been fired, except any warm bodies were hard to find there 4 years ago. Some, like her, did a good job because they could not imagine themselves doing a bad job. It was her PHB that exploited her. So bosses like workers come in all shades.
> Unfortunately, the working class eventually got around to swallowing its pride, and tipping returned with all the fervor it possesses today. Even the Communist countries have not entirely succeeded in eliminating the practice.
There is no tipping in Australia. Except if you go to a posh restaurant, where it is optional and not expected. Australians believe that employers should pay what the job is worth.
If you go to a shop and get poor service you don’t go back. Eventually they’ll go broke and a more customer friendly business will take their place.
Jim
I was addressing two different points.
When the tip is fixed, it’s just part of the price. And one you don’t pay sales tax for.
When the tip is not fixed, it offers an incentive.
TriPolar said:
Sorry, that wasn’t clear from the way you phrased it.
The complaint against fixed tipping amount is that it unnecessarily complicates the billing process for very little gain. So I don’t spend sales tax on 12.5% of the bill? Is it worth that for me to have to calculate 12.5%? Okay, nowadays most places have fancy machines that can print that on the ticket for you. Do they? Whatever, it is still stupid. “The price is $9.99*. *Plus 12.5% of $9.99, plus tax on $9.99.” Make it simple - incorporate the set value into the price. For bonus points, incorporate the tax rate into the posted price and simplify the pricing structure even more.
Mijin said:
At a guess, bartenders frequently do things like mix drinks. Sure, just filling a glass with beer from the tap ain’t much work, but “2 parts vodka, 1 part dry vermouth, shaken, over ice, with lemon” is a special order that rates acknowledgement. Somehow the practice is extended to cover every thing they do. (Hey, I’d sure like it if I didn’t have to drop a dollar in the jar for a glass of ice water, but it sure beats the $6.50 they charge for a bottle. Plus a tip.)
md2000 said:
Technically it is taxed either way, but you are correct, if management distributes it then they are supposed to pull out withholding.
Agreed, also of course, if you get poor service you won’t recommend the restaurant to others, which may affect the business even more.
As others have mentioned upthread, the idea of tipping to improve service next time is also strange – do I only get a so-so service until we’re “friends”? wtf?
Looks like we’re stuck with the practice though. Indeed, an increasing amount of services it seems to me, are trying to make tipping the done thing.
But we only pay our staff peanuts! How can you not give them a tip, you wicked person?
Tipping is a practice that seems to grow and grow. When I was a kid, if you went to a Dunkin Donuts, there was no tip jar. What are you tipping for? Reaching in the shelf and pulling out a donut? Now there is. When I was a younger, there was no tipping when you bought a wine cooler at an intermission for a play. Now, there’s a tip jar, and you’re expected to make a contribution. And, don’t even think of getting a latte without tipping!
My feeling is that both the server and the restaurant owner likes the idea of tipping and push the boundries. Servers get more money, and restaurant owners can pay their staff less because the staff gets “tips”.
When I worked in a restaurant, there was an unwritten rule that you shared your tips with the staff. You want people who were known to be good tippers and not problematic customers seated at your table, you shared with the maitre d’. If you wanted your food cooked on time and put out all at the same time, you shared with the kitchen. If you wanted your tables cleaned, you shared with the cleaning staff.
Any one of these people could make your life miserable and reduce the amount of tips you collect.
By the way, I tip in cash because most establishments will remove 5% from the tip for credit card processing fees. At one time Colorado had a law that allowed the restaurant to dock pay depending upon the amount of the tip. That is, if you tipped $20, the waiter’s pay would be reduced by $20 to compensate for the tip. Because of this, I didn’t tip in restaurants that had this policy. I think it was one of the few times I didn’t tip.
qazwart said:
You raise an excellent point I should have thought of earlier. While I haven’t seen tip jars at McDonalds yet (not that I’m there often), I have seen them at places like Quiznos and Subway. No, I don’t tip at fast food places.
Can’t say I tip at fast food either, though I kind of feel like a heel when I don’t, which I agree is backwards.
But am I the only one that bases my judgement of a restaurant solely on the food? Sure the price comes into it, but only in generalities ($12 for a meal vs. $7 for instance). The only time I didn’t go back to a place when the staff were jerks was a bar in San Francisco, and their cash only policy did a lot more to dissuade me than their attitude. Whether I go to a restaurant or not is based completely on how much I enjoyed the meal.
The OP is British; I think this is a fact worth noting, if only because I’ve never made a successful case for tipping even to British friends/roommates of mine in college…even when they were sitting in my section at the restaurant where I waited tables. Out of all the tables I had that night, when the kitchen crashed and food took forever, my dear British friends were the only people in my section who got up and bitched to the manager about it, and didn’t feel the need to tip me.
Even though they were my friends. (My boss pulled me aside and made his feelings clear about my friends; he comped half their tab. I told them never to come back to see me at work again.)
Regardless, my point is that IMO this is one of those things, like American football vs. British football, that are destined to remain unresolved across the pond. Most Americans understand the tipping system; it influences the quality of service and gives the customer a certain priority he/she may not otherwise have. (Gone to a drive-thru lately? Anybody?) It’s built into the minds of both customers and servers; we all know the deal. Does it mean you pay more or less at the end of the day? Maybe, maybe not. Depends on the service, in American minds.
But most American servers are paid less than a living wage, on the assumption that they will make it up in tips…and even though prices do reflect that, people who didn’t grow up here have a hard time with the idea that they “have” to tip. They feel, IME, somehow “set up.” Like “just tell me what to pay! I don’t want to think about it! I don’t want it to be up to me!”
It’s a cultural thing. That’s the only way I have ever been able to explain it. (I say this as a veteran in the industry; I’m 31 years old and I’ve worked for tips since I was 17.)
Exactly. The OP is tipping makes no sense.
I put it to you that you couldn’t make a case for it, because there’s no case to be made.
As already said, tipping gets me better service? So, what, I get a mediocre service until then?
The practice exists because one of the “rules” of culture is that traditions that demonstrate wealth tend to get reinforced over time (e.g. diamond engagement rings).
FWIW though, I follow convention and tip in all those situations where tips are “the done thing” – I guess I’m a sheep like everyone else.
They just get me annoyed because here in the UK they are trying to introduce tipping virtually everywhere, despite us having a reasonable minimum wage here.
(e.g. Most bar and nightclub restrooms now have a guy who stands next to the sinks, holding the paper towels. You get your paper towel from the guy, he forces smalltalk, and there’s a pressure to leave £1…Which I virtually never do, because if anything I would pay to get the guy the f**k out the way).
For the relevant service occupations in the relevant cultures, tipping is pretty much how they get paid. Why would you expect to receive a service without paying for it?
You’ve missed my point here. What I was responding to (and what I actually repeated in the line you quoted), is the concept that tipping should get better service.
This implies that you get a lower level of service than the person serving you is capable of providing, until you’re a known “good tipper”.
Does this not seem odd to you?
Imagine if every service you paid for worked like that.
Tipping is essentially a way for a business to deny their workers a decent wage.
Not that they have anything personal against their employees, it’s just easier that way.
See this chart that explains how it’s figured. Yes, you’re reading that correctly. $2.13 an hour.
AND taxes (including estimated taxes on tip income) is taken from that hourly wage so it’s really more of a device to trap taxes on tipped workers than it is an actual paycheck.
It’s good for the bottom line and that’s why it is an accepted part of doing business.
It’s also a competitive problem: however it got started, tipping in restaurants is now the standard US practice. Who’s going to be the first to add 18% to its price list on the menu, and say, “No tipping, please”? They’re going to lose their shirts, because people looking at menus on the internet won’t see the “no tipping,” they’ll just see the $$$ higher prices, and they’ll go elsewhere. Vicious circle.
I read about one high-class restaurateur in New York the other year (don’t remember the name) who did just that. Have no idea of the result, though.
That is the heart of the problem here in the US. Tipping is highly integrated in the system of payment, so individual proprieters are at a disadvantage if they try to stop the practice.
As for the complaints about lousy service if you don’t tip, you are entitled to adequate service. Tipping can get you better service, but if your service is subpar, you should mention it to the management and not tip.
As I’ve mentioned before, it does help keep prices low by making pay for the staff closer to a ‘piece work’ method. But that is often an excuse for underpaying. In a sense, that justifies the fixed percentage tipping, but that seems to draw the most complaints.
I used to own a small restaurant, more in the ‘fast food’ category than full service. Everyone was paid going rates for hourly employment, we didn’t use sub-minimum wage rates allowed for wait staff. The employees were allowed to keep a tip jar on the counter that customers would throw change in. It usually didn’t get the staff more than an extra $5 a day. But they appreciated the thought behind it and always thanked the customers. Once they donated their tips for 2 weeks to the pediatrics ward at a local hospital, and I’ve seen several restaurants participate in charitable tipping programs recently as well.
As a final note, if you eat at a full service restaurant, you can assume the staff rely on tips to make a decent wage. If you don’t tip for adequate service, you are receiving something for nothing, and only hurting the people who need the payment most. The owner loses nothing in that deal.