This is mostly a question for fundamentalists who are 100% sure of God’s existence. I am just wanting to know what would have to happen to have some sort of doubt as to His existence. What if the Quran were proved without-a-doubt to be 110% true? Would you convert to Islam, or denounce your Christian God? Or maybe by the mere definition of “faith” one needs no proof or disproof? That is, nothing can disprove a faith in God, but something can disprove a rationalization that God doesn’t exist (as discussed here: http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=33749)?
Maybe if aliens came into the picture and anounced that life on Earth was just an expirement gone horribly awry? Or…if evolution were proven somehow? I don’t know, I’m just trying to come up with possible examples.
Incidently, what is the approximate ratio of Atheists converting to Theists : Theists converting to Atheists?
PS: I’m not an atheist, so my goal is not to convert people to atheism, I’m just curious.
Unfortunately, in order to prove God doesn’t exist, you have to… well… die. I, for one, am not willing to give up the possibility of sex at some point in the future just for the sake of proving or disproving the existence of a diety that cursed me with a really small… uh… nevermind.
IMHO, I think that it is impossible to prove the non existance of God, same as it is impossible to prove the non existance of Santa Claus (not to compare the two, obviously).
The problem with this type of debate is that it is logically impossible to prove that something doesn’t exist. You can prove that something exists by showing it to someone, but you can not show the absense of something to someone.
Well, not to nitpick, but you can prove non-existance of something in one way: showing a complete list of everything that does exist. However, I would agree that this is not exactly a practical solution.
Ultimately (and I’m saying this as someone who does believe strongly that God exists) you cannot 100% disprove God, anymore than you can 100% prove He exists (which I don’t think, short of direct revelation) is possible.
Well, there are two ways that we can show that something doesn’t exist. One is by proving that it contains contradictory properties. For example, one can argue that since God is omnipotent and omniscient, he must know exactly how a serial killer feels while committing an atrocious act. But since God is completely good, he shouldn’t be able to enjoy committing an evil deed, which most serial killers do. Hence, it is impossible to be both omniscient and omnibenevolent, which God allegedly is. I’m sure there are ways around this argument; I can think of some myself. It’s just meant as an example of how we can put God in the same realm as square circles or married bachelors.
Another far less rigorous way to show (not prove) God’s nonexistence is to observe the universe. If we observe that there are certain properties seemingly inconsistent with God, then that lowers the likelihood of his existence. Things like unnecessary suffering, poor design, lack of obvious design, naturalistic explanations for most phenomena, etc. could all be seen as evidence of the non-existence of God.
The question should be more honestly phrased as “what would it take, Mr. Fundamentalist, to destroy your faith?”
As Opus1 observed, one may logically disprove God’s existence through reductio ad absurdum - derive contradictory truths from the premises of God’s existence. What would this matter to a fundamentalist, though, who’s belief in God’s existence is a matter of faith and not logic?
Torture maybe? It certainly seems the easiest way to disprove god. I mean after all these people generally believe people suffer because they did something wrong therefore if you make them suffer enough they will probably eventually think they dont deserve it like job in the bible.
Huh? Then all the Jews who suffered and died during the Holocaust should be atheists, because they were tortured. I am sure there are many examples of religious people who were tortured, and yet felt that they came out of the experience with more faith than before.
Since this is a rather obvious play on the post I started with the opposite title, I thought I would mention that I answered this question in that other post (“What Would it Take to Prove God’s Existence to You”)? My answer is somewhere on page 3.
Well, not to nitpick, but you can prove non-existance of something in one way: showing a complete list of everything that does exist. However, I would agree that this is not exactly a practical solution.
(zoom in on scene of The Supreme Being, bearing a strong resemblence to Sir Ralph Richardson, sitting in Heaven, going over His List of Creation)…“Hrm, everything’s here. Stars, planets, galaxies, pi-mesons, neutrinos, Strong Force, elephants, tofu, avacodo pits…hrm… note to Self…make the pit smaller next time… yes, this is the List of Everything in Creation! Wait a minute! I’M not on the List! Therefore, I don’t exist!”
Hey, that “puff of logic” bit is stolen from “The Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy” by Douglas Adams. Here’s more or less how he proved the non-existence of God.
In the book, there is an animal called a Babel fish, that if you put one in your ear, translates anything you hear for you. It was also used as final and clinching proof of the non-existence of God.
The argument goes like this.
“I refuse to prove that I exist,” God says to man, “because proof denies faith and without faith, I am nothing.”
“But,” says man, “The Babel fish is a dead giveaway isnt it? Something so mindboggingly useful could not possibly have evoled by chance. It proves you exist, so therefore you don’t, QED.”
“Oh dear,” said God, “I hadn’t thought of that.” And God promptly vanished in a puff of logic.
“That was easy,” said man, who went on to prove that black is white and almost get killed at the next pedestrian crossing.
However, it didn’t prevent Oolon Collophoid (author of “Where God Went Wrong”, “Some More Of God’s Mistakes” and “Just Who Is This God Person Anyway?”) from having another philosophical bestseller, “Well, That About Wraps It Up For God”.
Lib, that is a non-amswer along the lines of “A miracle? Every time the sun comes up or a bird sings, it’s a miracle!” How about this for a proof for the non-existance of your god. Since a basic tenant of the Christian religion is that there is only one god, would the appearance of Thor, Mercury, Athena, or Shiva showing up and performing and acting as they did in the stories about them do it for you?
Well, you have to admit, Lib’s approach (I am God, therefore God exists) does have a certain elegance. Sure laugh now, but soon the Libertarianarians will wipe you other puny religions off the map!
