What would make you take up arms?

I have to call “bullshit” on most of the armchair Wolverines here.

Ok, so hypothetically you would take up arms against an invader or whoever. But lets think through the specifics.

Do you even have a gun? I don’t. So right there, at what point am I going to decide “well shit. I need a gun.” I’m sure it’s a small matter of driving to a state where it’s legal to purchase a gun with minimal fuss (or buy an illegal one in NYC…except I wouldn’t really know where). Then again, how easy would it be to do this in occupied America?

Let’s just assume you already have a gun (for hunting or whatever). So are you going to see a news report on TV, grab your .30-06, and run off half cocked to shoot at Russian tanks?

Would you call up your neighbors and get everyone together in the local bar like the residents of South Park and then run off all half cocked?

How about you wake up in the morning and there are Canadian (or whoever) troops everywhere acting all polite (for invaders) and an EBS bulletin tells you that Canada is now in charge and proceed about your business as usual? When do you say…“I think today is the day I’ll kill me a Canuck”.

Yet, unbelievably, there have been such things as partisans and revolutionaries in diverse times and places. The urge to sneer at others for saying that they will do what you will not is deepseated.

Bah…city folk. Rural folk tend to have ready access to weapons. I do not believe I even know anybody that does not own at least one gun, and that includes the little old ladies at the bridge club.

Invasion by a foreign power.

Suspension of the Constitution “for the public good.”

Revokation of the Bill of Rights.

Does it count as taking up arms if one had no arms, yet participated in a non-violent mass demonstration resulting in peaceful regime change, i.e., People Power? I was in the streets of Manila in 1986, along with several hundred thousand compatriots, demanding that Ferdinand Marcos would step down from office. There was a very real risk of being shot, tear gassed, inundated with water cannon, or simply run over by armored personnel carriers. While there were a few actual soldiers, the vast majority of us had nothing to defend ourselves with except prayer.

I’d take up arms against a sea of troubles.

Foreign invaders. If my area was safe, I’d join the National Guard if they wanted me and I felt I would be put to use here in the USA instead of sent overseas.

US citizens wanting to do harm to uninvolved bystanders or destroy or take property

Government agents wishing to relocate citizens or unjustly seize property.

I feel rather guilty about being responsible for this thread drifting off topic a tad so I’ll be as brief as possible.

I agree that Spetznaz are nowhere near as good as British special forces or even American.(And yes I have worked with U.S. s.f.)

Two studies commissioned on the same topic(for obvious reasons seperately) by N.A.T.O. and the Warsaw Pact both came to the same conclusion,that their L.R.R.P. troops would suffer fifty percent killed within the first twenty four hours of operating behind the lines in their enemies territory.
But this would be by trained soldiers not enthusiastic amateurs.

Funnily enough they “forgot” to tell us,the people involved about either the studys or the conclusions.
But we found out anyway.

If I was trying to make the putative enemy the most insulting possible to militias I would have chosen Gay,Black,Muslims rather then Russians.
I know how to string razor wire and set Claymores and have done,so thats the fox hole problem sorted out, you and **Ex Tankie ** will share while I no doubt will be volunteered to run directly at the baddies to attract their fire so as you guys can locate their firing positions.
The quote allegedly fom Yammamato,leaving aside the fact that he was a sailor not a soldier was his projecting what a WW2 Japanese would do if their homeland was invaded.

Even the most patriotic American or Brit would agree that inspite of the noblest intentions none of us would act in the same way as a Japanese of that time.
As far as I know the allies didn’t put forward so much as one Kami Kazi attack or Banzai charge let alone frequently.

So Yammamato was frightened by what he thought would happen, not by what would have actually happened.

OOps,sorry to double post but one of my ex colleagues was a Ukrainian plus have a mate who was ex Russian army so I hold no prejudice against them SCUMPUP

Oh, heavens no. We have Marines for that. I’d envisioned you in more of a rear echelon role preparing us spotted dick, toad in hole, faggots and other UK delicacies to have during lull-in-the-carnage tea.

Only if you let us fix bayonets! Marines LOVE to fix bayonets!

“fu-IX!” (2,…3…4…) BAYONETS!"

Makes me all tingly.

As for the civilian insurgency, there is a myriad of organizations from the VFW to the Rotarians, Motorcycle Riders Clubs to Bowling Leagues that have SOME sort of quasi organization and leadership, a calling tree, or phone number list, and depending on the part of the country, a decent amount of firepower among them, and a smattering of military veterans. Obviously depending on the enemy situation on the ground in the immediate area, they could perform harrassment and interdiction, hit and run attacks, or random “sniper” shots. If the enemy is in camps, it is much easier than if the friendlies are in camps, obviously. Losses would be high and morale could wane quickly for many small groups like this, but they could go on as long as they could blend with and be shielded by the locals. Strategically their impact would be nil (unless the invaders had the NY Times on their side), but for every five or ten blowhards out there, there are another one or two who would actually do it. In my opinion.

Think “Iraq Insurgency” rather than “Wolverines”.

Well I’m sure that you’d just love to get a faggot or some spotted dicks inside of you Scum pup,no doubt at each and every opportunity.

You’ve made it pretty clear to everyone where your preferences lie but I’m afraid that you would really need some of your rear area chums to supply that sort of thing for you.
Someone as passionate as you must have more then a few friends already who will satisfy your needs in that direction.

As I said before i do not wish to share your hole.

Sorry to disappoint you but my tastes are very different from yours.

Though I pride myself that I do make a pretty decent cup of tea.

Better luck next time.

Lusty, Lusty, Lusty… you do flatter yourself, honeybunch.

When the alien monsters attack, and not before.

And I am moving this from IMHO to Great Debates for the same reason.

Goddamnit, I wanted to say that.

Iraq has proved that even a mostly unarmed populace will rally to kick out the occupiers. I think every nation in the world knows it would be impossible to occupy the US. We are an aggressive,armed group. If it takes 400,000 plus to even badly occupy Iran, how many would it take to occupy a heavily armed country with more than 10 times the population ?

Nothing. Absolutely nothing would make me take up arms.

Who needs a reason? :slight_smile:

Sgt. Wallenstein, 101st Fighting Keyboarders, reporting for duty, sah!

If the threat could be defeated by looking shit up on google, I’d be right on board, proper front-line business.

I have seriously thought about this in the past… it would have to be something as extreme as foreign troops on our shores (apart from Wales, anyone daft enough to invade my mother-in-laws house is welcome to it), or a sudden, massive curtailment of freedoms.

I’d like to think the day I saw anyone on my street - muslims, jews, Scousers - being rounded up and put in camps I would make a stand, but not (sadly) at the expense of my own families security. The honest liklihood is that I would need to see tanks rolling down the streets before I actually picked up a gun and fired it at someone, but it’s just not something I can get my head around based on my life experience so far.