Interesting. I think a society that never lied would be a lot different than say, our society where people often lied and then one day couldn’t lie anymore. I think there would be temporary chaos if suddenly nobody could lie. Eventually we’d adapt and I think in the long run we’d be better off.
Are we imagining one society that doesn’t lie mixed with other societies that can and do? That would get complicated. How would international treaties and diplomacy work if one country couldn’t lie and the other could?
Just imagine how politics would be affected and commissioned sales. I think in the long run if we knew other people had to be honest we’d be much better off.
It does raise the issue of how much honesty people actually want.
I don’t think it would. Often in the rise to power a leader presents themselves as a hero to the people who is doing things for their own good. If he had to reveal early on that he didn’t really give a shit about the public that couldn’t help. Loyalty in that kind of situation is suspect IMO. People may attach themselves to gain their own power but that doesn’t make them loyal.
I wonder. I try to be as honest as I can be but that doesn’t mean I expect it of everybody else. You don’t have to be gullible and naive to be honest.
Again, in the long run I expect that would be best but it’s interesting. I’m convinced a lot of people don’t want the truth as much as they claim to. The truth often requires something difficult of us, or at least something more difficult than just denying the truth and believing a lie.
You know I think that most art and literature would disappear. Isn’t lying just the fabrication of an alternative reality?
I think our world would be a very drap and backwards place without lying. Or, at least we would be destroyed by the invaders when they come. Haven’t you seen Galaxy Quest?
If the dress really does make her look fat because it accentuates what is already there, the possible answers are the truth, which only a White House speechwriter could spin positively; silence, which is taken as being the same as the truth; a distraction, which can be too obvious; or a gentle lie. Maybe the truth is better, but most people are not fast enough on their feet to make it work. OTOH, that only counts if she’s already bought the dress. If you are still at the store you can tell the truth, and add in a suggestion of a different dress, which will be so preposterously GUY (deep neckline, skirt too short, etc) that she’ll forget you said anything.
Well, I’m a guy who would temper the truth with “Honey I love you” and let the chips fall. If she couldn’t take an honest opinion offered in a considerate way then I’d know I was in the wrong relationship. I’d agree that lot’s of people aren’t quick enough but I think tempering the truth with consideration and compassion is something that can be learned and improved with practice.
I’m just gonna write this off as a different strokes for different folks thing. The friends I’ve personally found I trust, and therefor value, are the ones who were honest right off the bat. They were the ones who showed me where I could improve. They were the ones who told me how it really was when I’d have problems. Now sometimes they were wrong, but I wouldn’t be who I am without the honest answers. That they told me things I didn’t want to hear made me trust them when they said things I did like to hear. Yea the unpleasent truthful stuff hurt, but it made me stronger and I thank them for it.
Who does a compliment mean more from? Someone who says nice things, or someone who says what they think?
I could see how jaded person with negative opinions of many things might have problems though. One thing that made them my friends and not random assholes was how they presented it. A jerk will be little you for a problem. A friend will approach you and tactfully explain how they see it.
Let me ask you. If a person will lie to you about small stuff what else would they lie about?
Lynn Bodoni about your question, “does this make me look fat?”. There’s several different truthful responses. You can change the subject. “The ear rings really bring out your eyes”. If you’re the joking type, and she’s cool with that. You can use hyperbolic irony and embrace it head on. “Like a blimp! mischivious smirk” Then look her in the eyes and tell her how pretty she is, and maybe give her a kiss.
Prolly the best one, one that gives the fished for compliment. “bah I like it better when you’re not wearing anything!”.
But the true way to win that scenerio is never to play. “Does this make me look fat?” Implies body image, self esteem, and/or security issues. I used to tell an ex that she’d be the prettiest girl I knew even if she weighed a metric ton because she was she. It was true.
Of course the word ex implies problems, and there were but excessive honesty wasn’t one of them.
Also the GI Joe thing was irony. I may be an american but I’m down with irony.
Hmm, would this scenario allow deliberate deception, if no actual lies are involved? 'Cause if it did, people would just choose their words more carefully and decieve like crazy. They’d also use a lot of verbal qualifications to make it sound like they were saying things they weren’t.
For example, “You might say that.” is always true. As is any statement that it precedes.
Similarly, “It’s possible”, “What are you talking about?”, “Are you kidding?”, “What’re the odds of that?”, and “Don’t be ridiculous!” are all true or able to be said without lying due to not being an assertion with a truth value - but give the impression of agreement or disagreement.
Just to note, that the ‘unlying society’ premise has also been written about extensively in sci-fi, fantasy, and various fiction… the device that carries it is telepathy, empathy, or mind reading. A society of telepaths could lie, but it would pretty much be worthless to do so, or a device that could read brain waves and reveal your every thought would pretty much destroy lying and deception by its existence.
It would be a very “naked” society and I think man, by nature, would devise multidunious fig leaves to cover his exposure.The kind of society you are talking about would probably have elaborate verbal and cultural rituals to compensate for offense, maybe along the lines of Japanese language and society.
The novel Neanderthal by John Darnton (A light adventure, in the genre of Jurassic Park) also deals pretty extensively with this hypothetical in a pretty unique way.
