What would you expect a world to be like in which Intelligent Design were true?

Greetings, all. I’m not sure if this question is more appropriate for Great Debates, General Questions, or Cafe Society, so if a moderator wishes to move it I won’t object. This post is a modified version of a message I posted to talk.origins a few months ago.

First some background. I’m working on a story and could use a little input persons more up-to-date on biology and geology than I am. In my fantasy tale, two human children find themselves in an alternate world, the “Fabulous Plane,” inhabited by fauns, centaurs, merpeople, and other mythical figures rather than by humans. (The Fabulous Creatures word for their own world translates, naturally, as Earth; they refer to our world as “Counter-Earth.”) The Fabulous Plane is a flat world, which, according to the lore of its inhabitants, was once the same world as the humans’; eons ago, it was separated in a cataclysmic event called the Drowning. In other worlds, the Fabulous Plane is exactly as old as our world.

The Fabulous Creatures have a level of technology comparable to that on our world, though one based on a different set of natural laws (as should be obvious; for example, a planet with earthlike-gravity, in which cyclopes and other giants walk around without any difficulty, obviously either does not follow the principles of scale in our universe or is constituted of a different soft of matter). Much of what the Fabulous Creatures consider science and technology (or rather “natural philosophy” and “craft”) would be thought magic on Earth. The same rules of logic apply in both worlds, however; their natural philosophers follow the same methodology that our scientists do (and that creationists perversely ignore).
Anywhere, here’s the evolution-creationist tie-in. One significant way the Fabulous Plane’s nature is different from Earth’s is that intelligent design is not merely the accepted theory of the origins of life, but is actually the correct one; the theory of evolution is a minority opinion there, and very nearly a crackpot one. I’m considering adding a running joke to the story in which a genuine natural philosopher argues with an evolutionist about why evolution doesn’t make sense in their world; in each of the arguments, the natural philosopher will mention something evolutionary theory predicts which is NOT found in the Fabulous Plane. For example, the natural philosopher may point out that, if all life forms in the Fabulous World share a common ancestor, there should be a nested hierarchy detectable in the relationships based on their anatomical structures. But there isn’t. Instead, the evidence shows that creatures who seem completely unrelated (giant spiders, cyclopes, kraken, and walking trees, for example) are closely related genetically, while other creatures which might seem more likely to be akin (such as unicorns and centaurs, or fauns and werecats) have no real similarity on a cellular level.

Which brings me (finally!) to the bit of help I was hoping for. What other predictions of evolutionary theory do you think I might use in these hypothetical arguments? In other words, what evidences would you expect to see in a world where ID was true?

To be honest, a world where Intelligent Design is true would be exactly like the world we inhabit today. If the world were to be different under ID, then it would be immediately obvious why ID is not true. As it stands, minus the creation aspect which evolution doesn’t address anyway, ID and evolution are basically the same thing. ID says that something is guiding evolution; well, it’s perfectly feasible to think of an IDesigner guide it to look exactly like it does. Because we can’t predict the mind of an all powerful designer, how can we say that the world would be different now? The presence of unnecessary organs, of perhaps less than what we could call “perfect” design choices… these might seem to point to the lack of an IDesigner, but again, how can we tell? If pro-ID people would stop their stupid attacks on the creation part of evolution and finally admit that there is nothing scientific about ID, then there’d be no problems with it.

I can’t say I agree, Audiobottle. I wouldn’t expect junk dna to exist in an ID world, at least not an ID world with a competent, parsimonious designer.

Again, though, that’s placing ourselves into the position of IDesigner. ID really only addresses the root cause for everything we see around us, and that’s exactly why it’s not science. It makes sense to us that if there were an IDesigner we would have random DNA (although not all of it is junk - at least some of it exists to take one for the team when the random mutations come up), or what have you, but from an IDesigner who set up the rules of evolution and let them run their course, it makes perfect sense.

In an Intelligently-Designed world, I’d be very surprised if you still ate with the same orifice you breathe and talk with- that’s just asking for a choking. And defecation with the procreation organs? That’s just silly.

I’d also be surprised if humans (or whatever) could still sunburn.

Well, I’d expect things to be designed much better than they are. I mean, take the human body as just one example - our teeth are high-maintenance parts difficult to replace; there are several parts (appendix and tonsils) that are useless or unnecessary; for men, external genitals are easily damaged and poorly shielded; for women, 9 month pregnancies that leave them weak and vulnerable; and so on.

Tonsils. I can’t believe I didn’t think of tonsils. :smack:

That’s a good one.

Another good one. I can’t imagine how I’d cover that in a PG-rated story, though.
An R-rate one, on the other hand…
:wink:

One thing I forgot to ask for in my original post: I’d appreciate comments on how geology might differ too.

Wroooooooong forum.

If I were designing a world and had the well-being of my human creations in mind, 'd arrange:

1.) No nasty parasites

2.) No cancer

3.) Use of antibacterials wouldn’t end up producing resistant strains (since no evolution ought to be taking place)

4.) No “useless” organs – appendix, tonsils, etc.

5.) No grotesque inherited disorders

6.) No debilitating diseases or conditions

7.) Everyone dies peacefully at a fixed age
8.) I’d fix that bad design of the lower back to make it more reliable
9.) Get rid of osteoporosis

10.) Menopause would last one day, tops. And no hot flashes

11.) Teeth are cavity-resistant

12.) I’d have a much better thermoregulatinmg mechanism for sperm production than hanging the testes so vulnerably out in the breeze.

13.) The sensdes wouldn’t deteriorate with age.

14.) Tendons and joints would be strengthened to elimiate gamerkeeper’s thumb, housemaid’s arm, dislocated shoulders, etc.

15.) No acne for teenagers – what was I thinking?

I assume you meant “it makes no sense to us…” Anyway, that’s not what intelligent design is about. ID doesn’t just posit a “prime mover” god who started life on its way and let evolution take its course. The whole point of ID is that evolution could not have produced the supposedly “irreducibly complex” structures seen in modern organisms. Therefore, the ID crowd believes that these organisms must have been specifically designed by a guiding intelligence (carefully avoiding the wod “God”). The problem with this philosophy is that so many structures in living things appear to be the work of a really stupid designer, one who jerryrigs new parts out of parts meant for other purposes, and often settles for barely functional results, all the while leaving unnecessary leftovers in the works.

Ears and throats would not be connected.

Sorry, I didn’t mean Intelligent Design as meant by the people who are out to get our school systems. I mean it by taking the words literally, and as such, the idea of an intelligent designer does not clash with any of our scientific theories.
If I were in charge… I’d get rid of fingernails and replace them with sets of retractable claws, a la Wolverine. Why? Because it’d be cool, that’s why.

Go to the library, borrow a copy of Simon Winchester’s The Map That Changed The World, and read it. That should give you a good layman’s answer.

Check out the design of some of the MMORPH (or whatever it is they call those on-line gaming worlds). They really are ID worlds.

One of my main complaints about WoW is the fact that almost all of zones are surrounded by unscalable mountains-- to keep the different levels seperate.

The fossil record would not be as deep or as varied, how intelligent can a designer be if 95+% of all species die out before the “ultimate specie” arrives.

Plus, the cones and rods in the human retina would face the right way. There is a nerve in the head that snakes all over the place, I forget which it is though.

And in an interesting twist of thread, audiobottle gives us an example of the one and only thing that would have to be present in a Universe constructed by ID: a style. The IDesigner would have some purpose in mind, some means of determining which designs are good and which are bad. So there would be a greater-than-random-chance presence of attributes enabling the lifeforms to do a specific thing. In audiobottle’s case, fight. Other IDesigners might create lifeforms more suited for longevity, or adaptability, or reproductivity.

Conversely, this shows why our world is not a product of ID; namely that there is, AFAIK anyway, no predominant trend in the primary survival advantages of lifeforms on Earth. In other words, there are just as many creatures suited for camouflage and agility as there are for longevity as there are for combat as there are for adaptability, etc. Each species evolved to use whatever characteristic helped it best.

I object wholeheartedly to the kind of arrogance that assumes we are the ultimate species.

We are the ultimate species in an ID model. In evolutionary terms we are just mildly sucessful.