I’m not sure if you’re addressing me here or the OP, but if this was targeted at me then I think you misunderstood me. I think we’re in agreement that fanciful names are fine if they’re actually fanciful, but using the name of a traditional dish to refer to something quite different isn’t so much fun as it is misleading.
But if you do go that route, don’t call it “Indian Rose Mousse”, that name has me laughing madly right now- just to think of any Indian related dish as being named “Indian” rather than specifying the region. It’s just hilarious cognitive dissonance just trying to wrap my head around that phrase without laughing. Just speaking as an Indian person. If I saw that phrasing on a menu, I’d have to mention it to my friends just for the laughs, and I’d think a bit less of the place for not taking the time to try to figure out the regional influences of the food and just trying to generically name it “Indian” because it has the Rose taste in it.
(No dig at you, Implicit, I’m sure you were just throwing out examples and all, but that phrase was just too funny to pass on).
This one fascinates me. I would definitely try it.
This one as well.
None of the main dishes really appeal that much to me, though.
[Quote=datdemguydere]
Chile Pepper Fries
French-fried Fresno and jalapeño chiles, served with mango mayonnaise. $7.95
[/quote]
I’d go with a more Italian antipasta theme… breaded and deepfried sweet green mangos, Poblanos, and Portugal Hots, and green tomatoes. Top with a sprinkle of malt vinegar and some mozzarella cheese under the broiler… serve with a confit and sundried tomato Ketchup.
I totally got you were going for that – and I commented above that I don’t think there’s anything wrong with the practice (take a look at three Michelin starred restaurant Alinea’s whimsical interpretation of PB&J.) I just don’t think it works for your restaurant and for that preparation. There’s nothing in the description that really evokes a “fish and chips” experience to me, and I don’t see the need for the fanciful name. If I see “fish and chips” at Alinea, I’m going to be expecting something really off-the-wall and unexpected, yet somehow evoking the essence of fish & chips. With a bistro or gastropub, I expect something a little more literal.
And this is important, you sprinkle the finely grated mozz cheese lightly over the peppesr, then you sprinkle on the malt vinegar… then you broil. A special thing, that mozz and vingar. Browning bubbly cheese and the acidity it neese.
nix
If anything, I wanted to downplay the ethnic influences. I could easily see somebody ordering the mousse, tasting it, and saying, “That’s it?! What’s Indian about it - you just added some rose and called it Indian?!”
As I said upthread, this restaurant is not trying to be southwestern, or pan-African, or Indian. The food simply gives equal opportunity to flavors and ingredients from any cuisine.
There are people saying they feel intimidated by this menu. I wanted the names to reflect the familiar. Everybody in America knows fried fish with fried potatoes, or roasted chicken with root vegetables, or burgers with all the fixins.
Just to chime in with the rest, this is an insult to fish and chips. It isn’t the salmon that’s the insult, it’s the “pan-fried pistachio-encrusted”. I’ve had salmon fish and chips, and its ok. I don’t care for it. I prefer cod or some other white fish. Fish and chips is about the crispy batter for me. I can drench it in tarter sauce or vinegar.
What’s with all the nuts on everything anyway? You deserts are all inedible. I’d give the habener thing a shot, but I like hot foods. Otherwise, I’d have a choice of licorice or nuts. Not peanuts either, which are comforting, but pistachios or walnuts. Gross.
You have some good things going on here, but you need some straight up food. The things you have listed here would be betters weekly specials. It would save you money on specialty ingredients too. You can have your fancy pants ingredients for that week shipped on Wednesday and prepped for Thursday or Friday. Then you serve it until you run out. Keep the specials connected with a theme, and you cut down on the number of specialty ingredients you need to order weekly.
The rest of the menu should be comfort food done well. Don’t try to be exotic fancy pants chef. That is way too trendy. You’ll lose anyway. These are harsh economic times, nobody feels rich. You need to establish a costumer base. Your first coagulate are going to be costumers of convenience. These are the ones that happen to find you in the area and are looking for something convenient but not exotic. When people go for exotic, ironically, they go to their established favorite exotic spot. (unless you can afford to locate in a major tourist trap. In that case your menu is probably not that bad.)
1 - you don’t give equal opportunities to flavors/ingredients from any (every?) cuisine.
2 - why are you so against setting a theme to your restaurant?
3 - what’s the market like for restaurants that cater exclusively to older, childless couples of affluent means?
i think this is what’s hard about being an entrepreneur - wearing all these different hats. as a cook, as a businessman, as an administrator… all different goals.
So can you post any other sample menus?
Based on the feedback you’ve gotten in this thread so far, what changes if any might you consider making?
There are people who seek out exotic food just as there are people who seek out comfort food. Both types of restaurants can succeed.
Surprisingly restaurants often do well in bad economic times. People still crave some luxury in their life and restaurants are a relatively inexpensive luxury. They may not be able to afford a Lexus or a trip to Europe but they can afford a nice meal out.
All restaurants have to face the issue of finding a customer base. It’s an incredibly difficult business to break into. But overall, I would guess that an exotic restaurant would have an easier time of it than a comfort food restaurant. People who want familiar food probably also want to eat it in familiar restaurants. People who try new food are probably more likely to try a new restaurant.
Actually, I have been watching this thread, and also discussing it with husband and roomie [I used to be a chef, and they are both foodies]
If you want to concentrate on comfort foods, fine, make them comfort foods and safe the fancy nut encrusted fruity stuff for weekend specials as Warmnprickly says.
We decided comfort food mods are -
Mac n Cheese - but gourmet version - instead of hotdogs cut in, a gourmet chicken and apple sausage. Or spanish serrano ham julienne as a garnish.
Meatloaf - actually, to be honest, meatloaf is a version of rustic pate, actually… you could make it out of the classic beef, veal and pork. Filler of panade of second day crusty french bread and cream, whole eggs, and just a tiny bit of pureed foie gras instead of pork liver. [believe me, 5% of the mix in pork liver can’t be tasted and adds a velvety mouthfeel and richness to the loaf. Top with catsup and strips of thick cut bacon [not maple cured, too sweet]
Salmon croquettes/tuna croquettes but not made with canned fish, fresh fish steamed and flaked, and served with tartar sauce made from homemade mayonnaise and hand chopped gherkins instead of commercial mayo and relish. There are a number of good tartar sauce recipes online.
Three examples of real universal comfort foods, that can be dressed up without becoming unrecognizable, and are true comfort foods for a lot of people.
Other appetizer comfort foods are trite, but standards, crab cakes, classic garden salad, french onion soup, I see those on peoples tables out to eat all the time.
Fresh made crab cakes, instead of premade frozens ones and homemade tartar sauce from above, fantastic. Did you know that you can make crab cakes from the microscopic salad shrimp? You can make clam cakes the same way.
Salads are great, just instead of bland iceberg, a whole head of boston butter lettuce spread, and in the center a scattering of green garden peas, julienne of jicama and diced shallots [you can offer some sort of peppers on the side for people] and croutons made from leftover bread from the day before’s bread made with garlic infused italian herbed olive oil. This hits the lettuce, the oniony and crunchy components. If you have at least blue cheese, french, italian and some sort of light vinaigrette you are good.
Absolutely nothing beats the classic french onion soup when it is made correctly. It can take forever if you do the onions slowly all day the way it is properly done, but it is well worth the effort. Especially in winter - that thick crouton disc with toasted gruyere cheese dusted with freshly skimmed off shreds of a good parmesan and a dusting of freshly ground pepper makes me sad that I already made lentil soup for lunch.
Save the salmon and liccorice for weekly specials [well actually, see what is fresh and special and can be delivered thursday for the weekend trade and make the specials based on that. Did you remember that monkfish is called the poor mans lobster, and can make an incredibly nice chowder or fish fry once you trim off the dark oily flesh that can sometimes be a bit fishy?]
Ok, so what you are trying to do is Americanize ethnic dishes? You keep bringing up a parallel like a twist on PB&J, but that isn’t what this menu is; you’ve started with ethnic dishes, used unusual ingredients, and attempted to tether them to something American.
You want repeat customers and offering something familiar that they might eat weekly is a good idea, but anyone who is going to enjoy the exotic flavours doesn’t need to be tricked into thinking they are ordering something American. Everyone else is going to need actual standard American food, which you do not offer.
I’m your demographic, childless, 40’s, and we eat out weekly. Our usual restaurant is Italian, I order the chicken parm with a side of roast veggies instead of pasta and my husband orders the special 90% of the time (doesn’t matter if it’s veal or scallops or sausage) and a caesar salad. When we lived in Seattle or Vancouver we ate out more often and the restaurants we frequented there were seafood, Mexican/Latin, and Korean.
The OP’s menu reminded me a bit of Café Tu Tu Tango, which is a fun appie place. .pdf menu. As I said (or implied – I don’t remember) none of the items really jumped out at me – at least, as a meal. When I read the menu, I thought I’d like a small sample of a variety of items.
To address Little Nemo’s point, when I eat out I’m just as likely to seek out ‘exotic’ food as ‘comfort’ food. Only what my coworkers think is ‘exotic’, I think is normal. That is, I like Vietnamese, Japanese, Indian, Ethiopian… whatever. For me, it’s ‘What do I feel like today?’ My coworkers think those are ‘exotic’. On the other hand, I’m quite happy with a burger or a sausage or a California Chicken Sandwich. The places I tend not to go to are the ones that are ‘exotic for the sake of being exotic’.
That’s where Café Tu Tu Tango came in. (Past tense, because I no longer live near one.) Many of the items on their menu are similar in spirit to the OP’s. Only, instead of buying one appie, one entrée, and one dessert, I can choose a sampling of many. I may not want to make a meal of braised pineapple, but I’d like to try a bit. Get two or more people together, and you get more variety and/or more of the things people especially like. I think this might be more profitable as well, since I think that a patron will spend more for variety than for a single item.
Another place that comes to mind is a local brew pub. Menu. Their offerings are not as ‘gimmicky’ as the OP’s, but they do have a few things that are ‘different’. For example, you can get a beef burger, but you can also choose a lamb burger. Or you can choose chicken enchiladas or Yam AleChiladas:
I would not go to a restaurant with the OP’s menu unless I was going out with people and making a night (or lunch) of it. But I would go if the same items were offered as tapas. Or I would go if the items on the OP’s menu were offered alongside traditional fare like the brew pub offers. (i.e., I’d want to see some of the OP’s items, traditional items, and the OP’s variations on the traditional items.)
I believe that’s me bringing up that parallel, not the OP. (ETA: Although I guess the OP mentions it first as a children’s item, but I don’t think he “keeps” bringing it up.") Anyhow, I agree with your point.
Although I do think the menu is a bit of a mess, I would be weary with taking advice from the Straight Dope about this topic. I would wager that if I posted menus from some successful mid-range restaurants I enjoy in the area, we would get some similar comments (too expensive! I don’t know what that is! Where’s the meat and potoatos? etc.) However, I also think there’d be a lot more positive reviews with ingredient and flavor pairings than what we’re seeing here.
Pike Place Chowder gets their fish from across the street. I’ve seen fishmonger employees carrying over fresh fish, and have seen them eating there.
I also like that they offer a sampler, where you can choose four smaller (5 oz.) servings of their chowders for variety.
What would I order? Well, I’m not exactly your target market, but, lessee…
Savory Black Bean Pastry
Layers of black beans, poblano and jalapeño peppers, pancetta and queso fresco. $8.95
Sounds good. An unknown dish, but hey pastry crust and cheese. Can’t go wrong there.
Fish and Chips
Pan-fried pistachio-encrusted salmon fillets, served with blue potato wedges and red cabbage slaw. $16.95
Salmon and potatoes and pistachios? Sure. I’ll eat that, although I’m not flush enough to spend $17 on fancy fish n’ chips very often. Unless it’s a damn fine piece of fish.
Plum Cobbler
Buttermilk biscuits baked in plums; served with house-made cashew ice cream. $6.95
Okay. I’m unlikely to spend 7 or 8 bucks on dessert unless it sounds amazing, but I got paid yesterday, so why not.
The french fried chilis and maybe the habanero dessert are about the only things that would intrigue me. To be honest, I think you need a lot more meat on the menu. Why would you have a veggie burger, but no real burger?
pulykamell writes:
> Although I do think the menu is a bit of a mess, I would be weary with taking
> advice from the Straight Dope about this topic. I would wager that if I posted
> menus from some successful mid-range restaurants I enjoy in the area, we
> would get some similar comments (too expensive! I don’t know what that is!
> Where’s the meat and potoatos? etc.) However, I also think there’d be a lot
> more positive reviews with ingredient and flavor pairings than what we’re
> seeing here.
Let’s find out. Find the menu for a currently existing restaurant that’s closest in style to the one that OleOneEye is proposing. Post it. Let’s see what the reaction of Dopers to that menu is like. I don’t have much sympathy with OleOneEye for complaining that the complaints and advice of Dopers isn’t what he wants. We’re giving him our honest reactions. If he didn’t want them, he should have posted to a different board.