I assume Shodan gets his news from the right-wing misinformation bubble. He has been told that the government is trying to force parents to feed children what it demands. Because the right-wing misinformation bubble is more than willing to lie to motivate people like Shodan into voting the way they want.
So, he’s probably just reacting to what he thinks is happening, not what is actually happening in reality.
QFT.
Can you quote the part where she is pushing schools to use organic foods? If not, I can’t understand what you are getting at with that post.
But the federal government doesn’t need to be PART of the problem.
The federal government is - for good reasons - in the school lunch business. Kids who before school lunch programs didn’t eat, now do. And we could say this should be a states thing - but there are a lot of states with a lot of poor kids who are having their student lunch programs subsidized by richer states. This is the sort of transfer of wealth that pretty much all but the most conservative tend to support - its indirect, it addresses a specific need, it meets the needs of children who are poor through no fault of their own.
Now, its possible that you think that the federal government should get out of the student lunch business entirely. But they are there, and if they are there, they might as well do it in such a way that they aren’t part of the problem. Its also possible that the federal government should hand out no strings attached money to fill this need…not a fan of that myself.
Not that that is easy. Kids like pizza and tater tots. They eat pizza and tater tots. Try feeding them spinach salad and whole grain bread and many of them won’t eat. But I think we can do better.
I’m sorry if you can’t read what I am writing. Clearly I said she was an advocate of organic foods (and local, of course).
I never said it was in her school food plan. It would appear that you are seeking to deflect any criticism aimed at the First Lady. The OP linked her healthy kids thing with a comment Huckabee made about ‘organic cake’ --which has nothing to do with cafeteria food. So it’s clearly a larger issue than just what she wants done in schools.
Well considering the food was prepared by this person
refusing to acknowledge that the food served was organic would have been very odd. But it is not part of the campaign to kids, for schools, or in the PSAs. (And yes, I did read what you wrote: “I … hate Michelle Obama’s campaign. She’s doing it all wrong.”) OTOH local community gardens with kids getting involved growing food are. (And those local kid managed gardens will often happen to be organic, after all I don’t want my kids handling the pesticides and fertilizers much.) And without question getting kids involved in food, growing and preparing, is an important part of effectively educating about good nutrition.
Martin your point about the unintended consequence of current school lunch guidelines, mandating a minimum amount of calories, is a good one. The proposed new guidelines would lower the calorie requirement for school lunch from a minimum of 825 for over 12 years old, to “a minimum of 750 calories and a maximum of 850 calories per day for school children ages 14-18”, require more nutrient dense choices, more veggies and fruits, less trans-fat, more whole grain, and less sodium.
I can see how cash strapped school discrits could be worried about the cost of achieving that, even as the calorie requirement is decreased.
On review CP - what part of her campaign do you think she is “doing all wrong”? The promotion of exercise or the promotion of the MyPlate nutrition guideline or the promotion of all aspects attacking the issue from community to family to public policy to schools to doctors offices? Is any of that not wrong?
That’s not necessarily entirely true. Kids eat what they are habituated to eating. Take a look at variety of whole foods children eat in various cultures. You can even see a difference among western/industrialized cultures and notice that consumption of processed food is creeping into even more traditional societies.
Uh, no.
The USDA’s first nutrition guidelines were published in . . . 1894.
I remember Schoolhouse Rock telling me what to snack on in the 70’s, when I was a fat kid . . . on doctor prescribed diet pills.
The government and the culture have been telling us what and how to eat for generations.
It’s pure partisan bullshit, if Obama were to advocate stopping on red lights and going on green ones if would be decried as yet another attempt to impose Marxist Nazi communism on America. Sadly, that’s not hyperbole and cites are readily available from places like Free Republic and Sean Hannnity’s message board (where I read this shit when I can stomach it).
CMC fnord!
<snip>
I think her attitude is wrong. Actually, I don’t know. Maybe it doesn’t matter because it’s hard to tell if it’s working.
As I said:
[/QUOTE]
though I clearly agree with her position on school food:
The attitude. Not the underlying message.*
*Though I am weary of her organic food meme - it’s not new for anyone who’s been reading the news for the last three + years - even if she is not suggesting it be placed in local schools.
I mean no offense, but I disagree with this. She does not come across to me as a self righteous-arugula loving, whole food shopping mom at all.
She comes across as someone who is encouraging our children to get up and move a bit. Grow our own foods, when we can. Work spending quality time together around the dinner table, if you can. Eat healthy, it is just as easy to save money on healthy food.
And they do urge moderation. President Obama has eaten plenty of burgers and fries on camera. I don’t find them judgy at all.
And her husband is trying to put people back to work, but gets stopped in his tracks at every turn. This president is not to blame for why there are so many people barely eating right now. But that’s another topic.
I just wanted to point out that your view is not universal. I see something totally different than they way you do.
Which is perfectly OK. I mean, she sounds like a lot of my friends. But when her favorite food is steak and arugula and she drinks organic wine, people who don’t even know what arugula lettuce is may go :dubious: ?
Food is a class thing. I get she’s trying to make it so that it doesn’t have to be, but she does come off as judgy. To me. I don’t know. Is that why she was promoting Wal-Mart produce?
Otherwise I have no idea why people are protesting fresh fruits and veggies.
Laura Bush had fresh fruit and veggies in the White House, too, but didn’t broadcast it.
My parents came off as pretty “judgy” when they insisted that I eat vegetables and grains when I would’ve been perfectly happy living on Twinkies, Doritos, and Coke every day of my life. I grew out of it, but what happens when we now have generations of people who never do grow out of it?
It would be un-American of me, or Michelle Obama, or anyone else to challenge your right to stuff your little butterballs with whatever manner of processed crap gets them to stop whining for a few precious moments—but they’re going to grow up and have their own little wheezing diabetic butterballs, and so on and so on, and it’s going to have real impact on the rest of us who’ve forced ourselves to eat an occasional REAL onion along with our Funyuns and Bloomin’ Onions. And by that I mean financial impact, which even you Gadsden-flag-waving patriots who couldn’t give a wet fart for the “common good” can relate to.
Back on topic(which isn’t Michelle Obama, btw), what do you think about the state of school lunches today and proposals to make them healthier?
T?he topic isn’t what any of us think about the subject, and she very much is staying on topic: she believes that Ms Obama’s attitude is why people resent the intrusion. She may or may not be right, but she is discussing the topic, and you don’t need to attempt to moderate her.
I’m not attempting to moderate anything, but I am wondering what Mrs. Obama’s personal eating habits and take on organic foods has to do with her general proposals on healthy eating in the school systems, and I wouldn’t mind seeing some specific examples of this supposed arrogance as it pertains to the subject.
IMO, a lot of people are forgetting that the school lunch program is a two-pronged USDA program. It came about as a response to soldiers being drafted in WWII who were undernourished. With Ag subsidy programs, the US government bought up surplus commodities. What better use for them than feeding children who, otherwise, may go hungry?
Most of the surplus commodities come from big Agriculture, not Sunshine and Country Joe’s Farm Fresh Organic Produce. The beef industry, potato growers, dairy farms and growers/ processors who provide canned veggies all claim more of the USDA subsidies (no cite, just going by what we handled for the USDA school lunch program at my last company and processed for the USDA child nutrition program at another company) than farms and processors who are smaller, handle more specialized and perishable products.
Without more restriction / regulation for what gets subsidized, not a whole lot will change, I’m afraid.
Seriously, every BMI conversation turns into “BMI is a lie. My boyfriend looks wonderful at 250 lbs. and if he were to lose 20 lbs, he’d look like a concentration camp victim.” I’ve heard people say that losing weight via diet and exercise requires “super human effort.” Others have opined that the only way to fight obesity is to wait until they develop a pill for it.
Some obese people can be very resistent to the idea that it’s not great to be obese, and that personal and public health interventions can prevent obesity.
If you are barely eating in America, you are doing it wrong. American spend a smaller percentage of their income on food than anyone else on the planet. We have more access to food, including unheard of things like affordable fresh produce year round, than anyone on the planet, ever.
CP, she is promoting Walmart produce because a major prong of her campaign is decreasing “food deserts”, which is the fact that there are large areas within urban environments where buying healthy food is not even an option. Walmart has made a sizable commitment to helping reduce that problem.
Let me get this straight though - the fact that I enjoy good wine, can and do buy quality ingredients to cook with, get veggies and fruits at a local farmer’s market when in season, personally enjoy fresh fish and even game meats that many others do not have access or the means to purchase, disqualifies me from discussing and promoting more mundane nutrition habits with any families in my practice that are from lower socioeconomic groups? I now will in my role as a pediatrician come off as “judgy” when I strongly advise against giving toddlers juiceboxes and when I discuss the importance of offering plates that are half full with veggies and fruits, limiting the poorer nutritional choices, having breakfast, and not trying to force kids to eat, with those parents? Only someone who is of lower SES can educate those of lower SES about nutrition and how to prevent obesity in the first place? My tastes and preferences in food for myself make it such that my “attitude is all wrong”? Probably true for me promoting physical activity too - the fact that I have a nice free weight set up, an elliptical, a few decent bicycles, and more, means that I cannot get away promoting daily physical activity for all families, be it just taking the stairs more often, or runs, rides, calisthenics, dancing to music videos, whatever?
Sorry the obese poor are not “barely eating”. They are eating poorly, but that is very different. Trying to make it such that the opportunity to eat healthier is available and affordable to them and that they know how to do it, as Mrs. Obama is trying to do, is not being a food snob. It is an vital public good. Even if it comes from the mouth of the likes of spoiled White People like me.
even sven I believe I am one of those people who you perceive as having said that losing weight via diet and exercise requires a super human effort (although my position actually is that losing it and keeping it off, once someone is an obese adult, does). Well the reality is that it is true. That is why Mrs. Obama’s campaign is so important: long term we can only hope to reverse the numbers of obese adults by preventing children from growing up into obese adults in the first place.
Kinda makes you wonder then why we’re stuffing our fat faces full of processed crap.