Data point: the spouse and I dabbed icing on each others’ noses, but no smoosh. If I’d gotten cake on her dress she would have murdered me.
On the smiling thing: occasionally I think “That person would look better if they smiled”. And then I think that if someone told me to smile when I was in a bad mood, I would want to kick their teeth in. And so I don’t tell them to smile.
I’m a man, and have been told to smile by several women (never men). I never thought of that as harassment, just odd overstepping of boundaries.
yeah, it’s rarely harassment in reverse. That’s the power imbalance working for you.
There you go.
If nothing else, you would be ruining their smile (unless they were British).
[quote=“panache45, post:422, topic:960965”]
*’m a man and have been told to smile by several women (never men). I never thought of that as harassment, just odd overstepping of boundaries.
*[/*quote]
Yes, that has also happened to me. It baffles me. I don’t have a scowling face and I have a friendly demeanor. I may look serious if I’m reading or concentrating on something, but doesn’t everyone? One woman I worked with literally screamed at me about it one day (rather embarrassing coming from someone about 25 years my junior) and another told me I looked like “Eeyore” when I was calmly sitting at my desk concentrating on writing a commercial script, probably for her. I simply said “You’re not making any friends here” and let it drop.
Ordering someone to smile more is presumptuous. I would never say that to someone, let alone make a public issue out of it.
I sincerely doubt there are only six women posters here. However, yes, men can be oblivious, no doubt. Not only of harassment, but of being flirted with and other things that would be to their benefit.
To be fair, a lot is subtle and what is harassment to women, males just think is kidding around or something. Dumb Blonde jokes to a blonde. Most harassment is not intended by the male to be mean, but it still is harassment. I was a EEO investigator, and dudes would say “I was just kidding around!, I didn’t mean to insult or harass!” and they would be sincere. But they were still harassing. A compliment, asking out on a date, etc- all could be harassment under some circumstances. And the kind of mild workplace harassment the “new guy” gets seems fine to men, but not to most women.
So, you just didn’t notice the lampshades.
Honestly, it isn’t all “Miss Smith, give me a blow job or you will lose your job!” . We all know that is wrong, we will see that and we all deplore that. But it is rarely that obvious.
No, us guys harass each other all the time. Really. But it’s “just kidding around”, little one upmanship insults, joking etc, and dudes learn to go along and harass back- and in fact some dudes enjoy the game. That doesn’t make it always right, and we can’t demand the female go along with our little locker room “joshing”. “Dude, that tie… Yes?.. Did you lose a bet?” “Smile -the boss is watching!”
I am saying literally “I have never seen someone ask a woman to smile, though I hear of it often, and I believe what I’m being told.” as per the OP.
I simply cannot fathom why so many others in this thread want to insist that I’m disbelieving the phenomenon (I’ve stated clearly that I do believe it) or that I wouldn’t notice harassment (maybe, maybe not, but I’ve been through hundreds of hours of anti-harassment training, and this specific thing is definitely too weird to overlook).
I’ve never seen a man tell a woman to smile. I assume it happens because so many women say it does. That’s all. The end.
That would be “hyperbole.”
There has been an exodus of women, people of color, and various minority gendered folks from this board, for reasons. It has been discussed. It was this I was referencing.
You are missing the point I’m trying to make. Pretend you are a short, slightly built young gay man. Your large old unattractive boss comes on to you. Brushes against you in a doorway and grins, comments on the fit of your pants, wants you to work late while only you and he are in the office. You try to avoid such situations but he is the boss, and you need that job. Are those jokes really jokes? Do you think they’re funny? Are they just dudes being dudes?
I delivered pizzas to help me through university. I had two or three seduction attempts. I remember two distinctly but I have a feeling there may have been one more.
OK I remember the third one, it was from a staff member of the shop so that doesn’t count.
Could you give us a link to that discussion?
I’m not very good with searching for threads. Perhaps someone remembers the titles of those threads.
Dude, it was definitely discussed. Is your search broken? Why make the woman do the work of proving it to you? Put on some big boy pants and Ctrl+F the ATMB forum.
Perhaps this one
Getting back to the OP topic- slow claps. Based on all the glurge I have read online, people are always telling off a bully or a mean person and everyone within ear shot starts a slow clap. Never seen this happen outside of movies.
This talk of men not noticing sexual harassment reminds of this anecdote I heard:
A guy is interviewing people who work for major fast food chain and asks them how often they hear about women being sexual harrassed:
CEO: “No one has ever complained to me about it.”
Vice President: “I hear about 3 to 4 case a year.”
Regional Manager: “I hear about 3 to 4 cases a month”.
Restaurant Manager: “I am routinely firing people for sexual harassment/inappropriate conduct.”
No, there hasn’t. There has been no such mass exodus.
Of course there is real obvious sexual harassment going on, but a lot of it is subtle, and not really noticeable except to the two parties concerned, Not all is subtle, just quite a bit.
I have. In fact I think I did it myself back decades ago.
Modnote: This is pretty dismissive and insulting. If you don’t want to assist, that is fine, but no reason to go after another poster.
Basically, I don’t read threads in the ATMb forum. I think the SDMb is great for answering factual questions. It’s not as good for opinion discussions. I often look at the title of threads and see one about an opinion question. I think for a few seconds about some opinion I might add to that thread, but then I stop myself. I realize that what I might say might get me involved in a long discussion. I don’t read the SDMb for long discussions. I simply don’t have the time for it. What interests me are asking and answering factual questions.