What's the deal with the rich angry white dude (usually conservative or right wing) archtype?

In My Humble Opinion
61

I’ve never seen a workplace culture of self-promotion that wasn’t also a culture of denunciation (both done pleasantly and subtly, of course).

However, despite us all having had Mack E. Avelly as a coworker, I’ll bet we’ve all seen middle management suckups, grinds and drones all alike indiscriminately rise or fall not due to their own actions but because they were pawns in the upper management wars.

For the last 40 years I’ve seen just as many women at equal level as men in middle management. Nobody makes them stock characters “Wilhelmina Lomam - Death of a Saleswoman.” Yes, they get harassed, and hit the glass ceiling; but if they can swallow their pride they’ll get taken along as support staff by the men climbing the ladder, while men face a more strict up-or-out policy. More outs than ups.

If your job is just another great American tap dance, I suppose you might feel unfulfilled no matter what. But perhaps worse if you had a rewarding career: delivering quality patient care, producing a world class product, etc., and got fucked over for greed, jealousy or vanity, that too would be bitter.

62

Not me. Im in a position to promote people. I only promote positive hard workers who are team players. I fire toxic employees who lie, cheat, and don’t work hard.

With that said, as noted above, it does help if employees come to me and sell themselves. I want that kind of hustle and self-confidence.

While I try, I also don’t know what I’m doing. I work at a small’ish company. Nobody taught me. There’s no manual. So when the employees make it easy for me, that helps.

And lastly, im conservative with money and not handing it out. It helps to just ask for it and get it to my attention.

PS. If you want a trick to get a raise. Don’t say this “can I have a raise” it’s too easy for me to say NO with valid blah blah budget reasons. Say this, “would it be ridiculous if I got/deserved/asked for a 10% raise” - huh. Well. No that wouldn’t be ridiculous…..and now you’ve got me in a conversation about you getting a raise. *I learned this from a negotiation book and it’s super effective; I tell my employees to use it on me or wherever for anything they want.

63

IMHO you have it backwards. The foundational feature of present day conservatism (or whatever you want to call it) is the anger. The individuals mentioned in the OP just happen to be the angry people who succeeded. Because success isn’t cure for anger they are still angry.

I think it comes down to (most) people don’t change. Having a lot of money doesn’t change someone’s underlying personality. If they were a poor raging asshole and then suddenly have a lot of money, they’ll just be a rich raging asshole.

64

In my wholly inexpert amateur anecdotal observations, some sense of guilt may be involved. They suspect that the animus against wealth/privilege/entitlement might actually have some validity.

65

I’d describe it as “If the only emotional tool you’ve got is a hammer (anger), then everything starts to look like nails.”

The political right and socially conservative elements of our country have not only not moved away from what we’re calling toxic masculinity, but are actively embracing it and celebrating it. Which means that men are taught and expected to “suck it up”, “adapt and overcome”, “deal with it”, “be a man”, and all that. They’re expecting men to solve their problems and if they can’t, then shut up about them. And the only real emotions they’re allowed to show are anger/frustration, a minimal amount of sadness, and fairly tightly reined happiness. Everything’s supposed to be under control at all times and pretty macho.

So when they’re confronted with the situation where they’re losing status in the world at large, being told that this macho way of behaving is “toxic”, they react how anyone would react- they get afraid, they may feel a little guilty, and they are sad and mourn what was. And in their world, they can’t express guilt, fear or sadness (you DID everything deliberately, so you’re ok with the outcome, right?), so it comes out as anger, and that anger is directed at those who they perceive as the benefactors of this change and/or those who they perceive as driving the change. So minorities and/or people who don’t conform to their particular view of the world (liberals, foreigners/immigrants, LGBTQ), are in their crosshairs as the target for that anger.

Of course, deporting a bunch of poor Mexicans doesn’t really make their own lot in life any better, but they perceive it as at least a blow for their side. Same thing with hostile legislation toward anyone on that list.

I’m starting to wonder if in the long run, maybe changing attitudes on masculinity and on things like the value of experts (to quote Asimov, " the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.”), might be the way to get back away from this extremely polarized situation in the country.

And I’d say that calling it “privilege” is exactly the sort of thing that gets their hackles up. In common everyday usage,“privilege” typically implies a certain degree of unearned/undeserved benefit that the average person doesn’t have. Which isn’t the case here; they’re not unusually privileged- what white men have is what everyone should have; others are underprivileged. Which is how it ought to be portrayed; describing white men as “privileged” has an implication that they don’t deserve what they have, and that they should be pulled down a notch or that they’re expected to give something up. Which as you might imagine, doesn’t win any fans from people being described that way.

66

There was an interesting article in the New York Times recently and the collapse of community life and how it’s resulted in so many young men who are neither working nor doing anything else particularly useful. He compared it to the turn of the 19th century when youth were roaming the streets and the street violence of idle youth resulted in the public education system, the creation of the Boy Scouts, etc.

He proposed the solution to all of this is to get men engaged in community work and mentorship.

This is easier said than done. My husband works with a lot of unhappy young men who seem utterly unmotivated to make even the slightest change to improve their circumstances, and who think Jordan Peterson is some kind of genius.

67

I generally think that liberals are right about most things, but man are they terrible at messaging. And they don’t seem inclined to learn.

68

I know! It seems to me, as someone whose personal politics used to be slightly right of center, and are now slightly left of center, that the liberal side of things has a unique ability to not only fail to take advantage of situations where they have the social and moral upper hand, but actively screw themselves in the process. “Defund the Police” is a perfect example. Not only did they actively turn off a lot of people, they managed to taint the “Black Lives Matter” movement as well.

Or crowing about “privilege” and demonizing “old white men”. They should be trying to make the old white men their allies, not their enemies. Hell, I get into it with my wife periodically because she goes on about “old white men”, and I ask her if her dad, me, or my BIL are part of that problem, because we’re all “old white men”, yet we’re not who she’s talking about. And I can see that someone who’s not as versed in liberal thought (thank you SDMB!), might take all that as very offensive and as a very personal affront.

They need to work on their messaging and how it’s perceived. And they need to whip and beat the Democratic party into ONE message, ONE platform, and ONE direction to move in.

69

I have similar feelings about certain factions of the feminist movement. Ladies, how do you think women finally got the vote?

It was men. Women paid a higher price, certainly, but we needed, and still need, men. You can’t alienate some significant subset of the population and expect to gain traction.

Civil Rights leaders knew this. There’s a reason the I Have a Dream speech didn’t have the same content as Letters from a Birmingham Jail.

70

Except that they are, as the current administration demonstrates. It’s not just that some white men are getting jobs they are qualified for that others might be more qualified for or getting more lenient punishments that others wouldn’t; it’s that some white men are getting jobs they are deeply unqualified for and/or fully escaping any accountability for bad actions. White men in America live in a world that actively caters to them first and foremost. This is not to say that they all live in wealth and comfort, but even in this conversation we’re saying “gosh, if only liberals would tiptoe around them to avoid hurting their precious fee-fees”. Tell me that’s not actual privilege.

Ah, the standard “It’s the liberals’ fault for telling people truths they don’t want to hear”. I’m sorry but fuck that noise.

This is comic book villain logic again, in which the good guys are blamed for not stopping the bad guys from doing bad things, the bad guys in this case being the Jordan Petersons and Andrew Tates and other Toxic Masculinity Avengers out there telling young men that everything don’t like and all their failings in life are someone else’s fault. “Women are withholding something from you that you rightly deserve, and should be punished for it!”. “Minorities are taking your university spaces and jobs!” “Holding you accountable for what you do and say is cancel culture!”.

And any attempts to reason or persuade them out of those beliefs just makes them double-down, because the last thing they want to do is acknowledge the reality that they are insecure and inadequate people unwilling to even make the slightest effort to change themselves for the better.

So again: fuck that noise. Liberals have been mollycoddling these people for ages and I’m done with it. I’m gonna mock these petulant babymen as often and as hard as it warrants, because being nice to them doesn’t work and at least I can tell them the plain unvarnished truth about themselves.

71

No, it’s more that messaging like “Defund the Police!” is spectacularly tone deaf, counterproductive, and just plain dumb.

They took what was a very valid, sensible idea, reduced it to a idiotic sound bite, and thereby catalyzed more resistance to what they were trying to do than existed beforehand.

If that’s not incompetence at messaging, I don’t know what is.

72

Agreed; the phrase was too easily misunderstood (and too easy to willfully reinterpret) as “take all funding away from the police, and let the criminals run wild.”

73

If I presented myself as angry as I actually am, I would be in a constant state of throwing furniture through walls and punching people in the face.

99% of it is related to losing my job. I wouldn’t say it was sudden. There was a gradual decline in the job over the past year. But it is frustrating AF going from a job that initially felt rewarding where I enjoyed the work and felt valued by my leadership to no job in this shitty market where every job posting is inundated with literally 1000 AI generated garbage resumes (assuming those postings are even for actual jobs) and it’s perfectly fine to just never respond back after someone has spent hours interviewing (assuming you even get an interview in the first place).

So instead of being in my early 50s at the peak of my career, I actually don’t have a career anymore and have to explore the possibility of maybe never working in a professional job ever again. So yeah, that causes me a bit of anger.

74

Boasting may be self-promotion, but the rest of the things Der_Trihs said are dishonest at best and fraudulent at worst, which are the sorts of things usually required to get rich. So the rich angry white dude is more likely to have those sorts of traits, and they very likely see everyone around them as having similar traits that they must protect themselves from. It’s a “they’re all out to get me and my money” mentality. Then they’re also more likely to socialize with other people in that same position in society (echo chamber), which feeds into Fox News and worse media that actively encourages such anger and resentment and hatred. You don’t even need to be rich necessarily, but famous and/or influential to also have this constantly boiling anger. I’m thinking of the Tucker Carlson’s, Mitch McConnell’s, and Rudy Giuliani’s of the world. Bonus points for literal face melting, which may be a result of constant pursed lips and frowning face scrunches just as much as sweaty hair dye.

75

People are ultimately responsible for their own decisions. Bad messaging does not excuse them.

What I’m really talking about is collective social progress and how it happens - or doesn’t. Despite what social media may lead folks to believe, on-the-ground change tends to happen through collaboration and winning allies, public education, and strategic, targeted non-violent resistance. Progressives (at least extremely online ones) are currently a fucking mess on all accounts. I think one potential reason for this is that social media has decentralized social justice movements. Historically there have been clear leaders of these resistance movements organized around a core strategy and a core message. Anyone who followed was required to buy into that strategy and message. Right now it’s kind of a free for all. I’ve seen the anti-Trump protests in the last few years - there was no coherent message. The George Floyd protests were more on point, and as I understand it did lead to policy change, although we lost a lot of ground with “defund the police.” I have some mild hopes for No Kings, as that’s at least a unified message related to executive overreach.

I don’t actually know what the best response is to the current moment, which has kind of paralyzed me. I think a lot of us feel paralyzed. I do think any winning strategy would have to involve engaging with and winning over members of the most powerful group. It may not be fair, but it’s how the sausage is made.

76

Nobody’s arguing that most of what he’s talking about is bad. But being a crook/dishonest/unethical isn’t necessary to advance your career. The system isn’t that rigged. But you can’t really be some half-autistic misanthrope and expect to get promoted based on your stellar work ethic and superior work product. That’s also just how the system works.

So there’s an element of self-promotion involved for everyone. How far you take it is up to you though, and ideally promotion decision-makers will see through the bullshit and lies.

Well, when one side talks constantly about your “privilege”, and seems hell-bent on describing you as the root of all that evil, and then talks about all sorts of high-blown social programs specifically tailored to primarily benefit other people, when you’re the demographic that holds most of the money, it’s not hard to come to that conclusion.

The left desperately needs to work on their messaging. Like it or not, old white men are the ones calling the shots, and working with them will get a lot more done than alienating them, regardless of how ideologically pure it is.

77

I’m not a very socially adept person. I have social anxiety and there’s at least a small chance I’m somewhere on the spectrum. But I’m definitely not a misanthrope. I like people and I’m also pretty shrewd in terms of understanding social dynamics and figuring out what people expect of me. I’d say that’s been pretty critical to my success. Knowing when to keep my mouth shut, who is trustworthy and who is not, knowing what tone is appropriate for what circumstances, all of those things have helped me overcome my social deficits and succeed at work. My coworkers/superiors say things like, “nothing gets by you" and “you don’t bullshit" and “you keep us all in line" and all I really do is hang back when things get tense, communicate clearly, hold everyone to the high standards established by federal regulation, and take an interest in other people’s lives.

So I don’t think you always have to be an asshole to get ahead, or even some charismatic genius, but I think it helps to have a genuine desire to be a part of a team and some ability to read the room.

78

And yet they’re still angry despite all they have. I wonder how much of it is basic Christian persecution complex. No matter how big a majority they have, how oppressive they’re being, how powerful they are, it’s still “woe is me, I have it so hard.”

79

What they want is the deference due to them (cue the Mikado song).

Money, power, etc can’t buy that in a society that doesn’t strictly enforce the hierarchy they need.

Look at Musk, the richest and one of the most powerful men in the world, and he’s angry. His anger comes from what he can’t buy (yet), which is absolute authority over his lessors.

80

I’m trying to be mindful of this when raising my son. He’s been watching these Mr. Beast videos - Mr. Beast is basically a YouTube game show host for young people, and most of his videos entail awarding money to people for completing video game challenges (usually Minecraft.)

This guy is hardly the direct pathway to being an incel tech bro, but it sends pretty clear messages about money as the ultimate prize. So we’ve talked about money and the role it ought to play in one’s life. He asked me why global warming is happening - he has an interest in earth and astronomy - and I explained it’s because some people think money is the most important thing, and they don’t care about how bad it is for other people. And so every time we talk about money, I tell him that a little bit is necessary, and a little more can make for a comfortable life, but it’s not the most important thing and it’s definitely not worth hurting other people. As far as living that value, I think we do. We have some nice things but within reason, and my husband has forgone a bigger client load so he can be an involved father. So I’m hoping the combination of words/actions is effective.

My son is very intelligent and very willful. He’s also going to have to learn about entitlement, and I imagine as he goes through school there will be plenty of opportunities to provide that kind of guidance.