What's the etiquette of working at a coffee house?

If I’m planning on staying awhile, I usually throw a buck or two into the tip jar. That’s “for the table”.

That is very nice of you to help support the employees. Really.

They are not however the ones who are providing you with the space and the wifi. They are not the ones who you are getting something from and who you might be preventing from getting additional revenue from actual paying customers who want that space.

The busiest Starbucks near us (of several in walking distance) is quite small, the space. You can rarely get a seat, and some people there usually seem to be camped out for the long haul w/ laptops. I guess it’s reasonable to suppose Starbucks could just give up that location if it didn’t work economically (those are company stores not franchises). But that’s still always struck me as somewhat inconsiderate of those customers, though to other customers rather than necessarily to Starbucks.

The Panera (which does have multiple store franchisees) on next block is in a much bigger space. Lots of people hang around there too, people on laptops as well as people reading or not doing anything who might or might not have homes to go to (and who don’t seem to hang out at Starbucks…maybe because they can’t get a seat either :slight_smile: ), but there are still usually seats available.

It could also be that in some places, like Starbucks, there’s more an expectation or habit of the typical customer to hang around a long time. The Dunkin Donuts locations a few blocks either direction (those can be single store franchisees) both have few seats but it’s unusual to see people in either on a laptop and you can often get a seat though there might be just as long a line at the counter. The customers are a somewhat different demographic on average.

I guess most people are most sensitive about overstaying their welcome in obviously a single owner places which are also small.

I easily get to feel uncomfortable dawdling too much in either coffee places or restaurants but that’s mainly just me I think, rather than some moral/ethical thing.

You’d be doing them a favor.

I’m pretty sure that Starbucks have spent millions of dollars in R&D on optimizing their background musack. It’s not immediately offputting, but it’s broadcast all over the space so there are no quiet corners, and it’s designed to build cumulative vague annoyance with increasing exposure beyond about an hour.

We’ve been dining in a restaurant a few times when circumstances cause us to want to stay after we’ve finished our meal. For instance, heavy snow is falling and we want to postpone driving until the roads have been plowed a bit. I usually order another bottle of wine and desert, or maybe pie and coffee. That’s cool etiquette-wise, right?
ETA: of course I tip appropriately on those occasions.

There is no written law, the OP asked for etiquette and that is what I have heard. If you feel fine, great. I would act differently.

And how could you possibly know that?

Perhaps in your extensive travels following the dulcet, virtuoso musical stylings of The String Cheese Incident around the globe you somehow never noticed that all over Europe (and doubtless other areas as well) there are literally millions upon millions of people each and every single day who go into a bar, cafe, bistro, coffeshop, restaurant or tavern and order a single coffee, glass of wine, beer, appertieff or just a simple bottle of water (or some kind of pastry or other small snack) and then sit either alone or visiting with friends for 2, 3, 4 hours or more, then get up, pay their check to the cent (without EVER leaving a tip or even bringing their cup or glass to the counter) who are then bid a cheerful and sincere Goodbye, Au revoir, Auf Wiedersehen, Addio or Do Widzenia by the staff and/or owner until the next afternoon when the entire scenario repeats itself.

I have literally seen this exact scenario repeat itself virtually every day for the past 4 years, both in “my” local pubs, (while I am sitting and drinking my usual 2 or 3 beers and then leaving a generous tip, unlike the vast, vast majority of actual native Krakowianins who never tip) as well as places I have just stopped in upon passing, and so has anyone else who has visited Europe and taken the time to notice.

Sure, if a place is slammed and table space is at a premium, don’t be a jackass, but most owners will take any business, no matter how small, over no business at all, despite what you have to say about it.

Also, everyone with half a brain realizes that the vast majority of the time, most people don’t want to stop into an empty spot, people tend to go out to be around others. Bartenders damn sure know this full well, and all the world over people behind the bar would rather have a few people nursing a drink, (especially younger, good-looking people, even if they are not big spenders) than an empty house, so passersby might be lured in by a place with a little bit of life to it.

I go to Starbucks all the time to write recommendation letters or grade papers. I usually spend 3 hours or so. I never go when it’s crowded. As long as I buy something at the start, I can’t see that as unethical. No other customers are being driven off. I’m not making any additional mess. I can’t drink 3 coffees or eat three pastries. I’d have to literally buy something and throw it away.

I’ve only see around 20 Cheese shows which doesn’t even put them in my Top 10 and I have been to Europe a dozen times or so but aside from that, that post is a thing of beauty.

Certainly seems so to me. But this illustrates the criterion that the place be relatively uncrowded, presumably fewer people than usual are deciding to go out to eat when it’s snowing. And other people who come in in that case are probably coming for shelter also. And even day to day as others mentioned, an owner would probably rather see some people sitting around their establishment than nobody. So a few hangers-around are perhaps doing the owner a favor (assuming their appearance doesn’t scare off other customers :slight_smile: ) besides doing what suits themselves.

Whereas I get uncomfortable when I’m with a chatty group that wants to hang around a crowded restaurant after we’re finished. I’m not saying it’s ‘ethics’ necessarily, there’s a lot of over-moralizing about a lot of things nowadays IMO ironically often from people with no fixed idea of what morality is or comes from besides what each person thinks. So maybe just leave it as ‘IMO’ and forget tagging so many things as ‘moral’, ‘ethical’ etc. Anyway I don’t like it when I get stuck in those situations. If it’s just me and wife, or she and I inviting the grown kids and SO’s we clear out quickly from crowded places once we’re done, though don’t rush to finish. Same with crowded coffee places.

I don’t use the wifi. And I do buy something coming in.
Since they don’t have a posted check out time, it’s up to me when to leave. Maybe I’m just using those extra two hours to stick it to the man. I’m such a rebel.

I have no idea about the specifics of the place you park yourself in. As has been pointed out a person sitting down may make a place more inviting to potential customers over a large empty space. The specifics matter. Hence my surge pricing allusion. Fortunately all agree that at least one purchase is polite; that you should be customer to at least some degree. How much of a customer for how much time is where some disagree.

But the idea that if it is not posted then what is polite is just up to you strikes me as odd. Many family doc offices now have WiFi. Would it be polite or appropriate to park yourself taking up waiting room space doing your work there after a check for a sore throat since there is no posting that you are expected to leave after your appointment?

Nobody wants to hang out at a doctor’s office. Hanging out at a coffee shop is part of what the coffee shop is selling.

That was the Starbucks idea that started the whole thing here in the US. He wanted to be like a coffeehouse in Europe as opposed to the American McDonald’s idea of eat and get the hell out. There isn’t any time limit.

It strikes me just as odd to arbitrarily decide that the “polite” point is a purchase at least every hour.

How much purchasing counts as enough to consider yourself an ongoing customer entitled to ongoing use of the space and facilities is by necessity arbitrary. Saying once an hour no more or less arbitrary than saying once for three hours or all day. Heck, in general manners are arbitrary.

Two Many Cats, so you want to take what they are selling without paying for it?

Coffee shops that people sat in long preceded Starbucks btw. They helped develop a market for a higher end product not the idea of sitting there.

I do pay for it with the first purchase. Starbucks has even announced that you do not have to make a purchase to sit in their cafes. Of course, that was because of a racially biased arrest, but still, I take them at their word.

Look, I do sometimes order more than once. That’s if I want to. I shouldn’t feel compelled to by some arbitrary folklore off a message board. I have never heard of this purchase at least once an hour thing until this thread was posted.

Jesus Christ, it used to be that tipping was up to the customer. Now, you are considered practically a thief if you don’t leave at least 15%. We don’t need the same thing happening to the coffee shops. Especially if you tip the employees, but not the house.

Again the op was not asking what is the “have to” but what is polite, what is normative.

Tipping is a great example. You don’t “have to” tip at all. It is a matter of what is expected as norms. Tipping at all let alone how much is arbitrary. But not tipping or tipping very low (excepting for very horrible service) would be rude. And if say closer to 20% has become normative then tipping 15% when service was very good is not good etiquette. Arbitrary.

I do not endorse a one purchase per hour rule but it seems like a reasonable benchmark to vary from. Clearly taking up space for over an hour without being an active customer when the space might otherwise possibly be in demand is rude. What each circumstance is and what is appropriate varies.

I have no idea of your specific circumstances and pass no judgment on you. It’s just a humble opinion response to the op.

You’re right , there isn’t any time limit like the 20 minutes posted at McDonalds. And now they’ve said that you don’t have to buy anything at all to sit in Starbucks - but that doesn’t mean that “anything goes” as far as politeness. There’s going to be a certain amount of “depending on circumstances” regarding politeness because while almost* no one believes a group of twenty taking up tables from opening to closing while buying a single cup of coffee and keeping actual customers from finding seats is polite , any limitation not based on posted time is going to be somewhat arbitrary. Ok, so one purchase per hour is arbitrary and someone feels they aren’t obligated to follow such a rule of thumb. Well, 2 hours or 12 hours or 24 hours is just as arbitrary. And maybe I can bring the cup from the iced tea I bought today back with me tomorrow to get my free refills from the fountain- after all, there isn’t anything posted that says I have to get all my refills today. ** Either anything that’s not specifically prohibited is polite ( in which case, “politeness” has no real meaning) or there are going to be some arbitrary lines.

  • Although I guarantee there’s a non-zero number of people who will say " There’s no time limit and you don’t have to buy anything to sit there so we’re following the rules".

** To anyone who thinks I’m exaggerating, I’m not. I know a couple of places with “behind the counter” soda service that sell souvenir cups with free refills. They have to change the design each year because too many people saved the cup to get free refills the next year. One person I know who did this only went to thee place one weekend per year - he saved a plastic cup for years to get a couple of free refills a year. He felt cheated when they started changing the cup design and he could no longer do this.