First let me say that I really do hope that I would have had the courage shown by these young men in protecting the innocent from the vile anti-Muslim diatribes of the piece of shit responsible for this.
But what’s the lesson here for the rest of us? Steer clear of these incidents? I can’t believe that this is the right moral to draw from this, these young woman were in real danger and I would hope that most people would not choose to ignore this,
Intervene as these guys did with such tragic consequences? I’m wary of this moral too, there surely has to be a better way.
Always carry a gun? Not sure about that, ouldn’t it end up with more people dying unnecessarily?
Stop showing support for the President? I took a lot of heat on this board for backing Trump when he was first elected. I now think I was wrong and that Trump’s rhetoric, whether he intends it or not, is responsible for human garbage like this feeling justified in harassing people and spewing their hate-filled speech all over them. “The President does it so it must be OK.”
So I think the lesson for Trump is be fucking careful what you say. Your words can end up killing people. For me the lesson is don’t mistake American politics for English politics, be very careful that your criticism of Islam (I don’t like any religion) is not misinterpreted, and Trump is not just an asshole (which I’ve always believed) but a dangerous asshole to be dumped on every chance I get in order to try to make up for my idiocy. (And BTW to those members here who consider that nobody should be allowed to change their mind, and there are some, your position is as uncharitable as it is unintelligent.)
What lessons do others draw from this terrible incident? Or is it as beyond moral lessons as it is beyond reason?
Seriously? You don’t think maybe, possibly, that the attacker (a known far right wing Nazi sympathizer) didn’t feel emboldened in his beliefs and actions after some of the anti-Muslim rhetoric and violent speech spoken by the president?
I agree with **Gatopescado **that it’s a real stretch to blame Trump for this. During Obama’s presidency, which certainly didn’t endorse white supremacy, there were plenty of race-motivated attacks, in fact, you might make the case that this sort of racism by white perpetrators is *more *likely under a presidency such as Obama’s (when white racists can perceive themselves as being the embattled underdog opposition), than under a presidency such as Trump’s.
One lesson is that media will report it as one crazy individual, but obviously not terrorism. And a similar attack by a Muslim will immediately be labeled terrorism. And then the right wing sites will publish more of those graphs showing how only Muslims perpetuate terrorist attacks.
I would say that “some” people are dangerous. You have to make a personal call about what you are willing to do. Sometimes the worst does happen.
I’m no fan of Trump but, blaming this on him is ridiculous. That guy was going to cause trouble for somebody on some pretext or other no matter who was president.
But what other president in recent memory called for physical intimidation against his detractors while on the campaign trail, even going so far as to offer to pay to defend those who bullied on his behalf?
Don’t you remember Obama’s inspirational ‘kill whitey, allahu ackbar’ speech? You need to listen to Fox News more often and avoid those fake news networks and their elitist facts.
You know that being a man is more dangerous than being a woman, right? That men are disproportionaly the victims of violence, right?
You should expect that any man being rude to a woman will be even more rude to a man. Any man attacking a woman will be even more violent to a man. Defending a woman will exponentially escalate the conflict.
I sympathize with the country for the loss of these two young men, but it is a lesson boys should learn: man-on-woman conflict will seriously escalate if another man gets involved. You can’t go in expecting to deal with it at the existing level.
Moral? Crazy person raving and drooling? Stay clear. Relatively sane person saying some racist things? Maybe stick up for the victim. Gotta pick your battles.
We don’t know if he was raving and drooling though.
A couple of weeks ago, I posted this video of a woman spewing anti-Muslim vitriol towards another person while standing in line at the grocery store. She seemed pretty sane to me (apart from those shoes), and yet she pinged as “crazy” to a couple of other people. The person who verbally stood up to the woman could have easily become a victim of violent retaliation, and yet I think she was right to stand up for herself (and keep the receipt, as the youngsters say nowadays when an exchange has been memorizalized in print or video).
The only lesson that I take away from the Portland incident is that life can be taken from you anywhere at any time, even when you’re doing the right thing. This doesn’t mean you shouldn’t do the right thing. It just means you shouldn’t take life for granted.
A crazy hateful bigot was venting and harassing a woman in public.
Its only a story because two people stepped up to help the woman and were killed for their trouble. Its all over the news.
Its brought up here with “What’s the lesson/moral here?” but it almost seems to imply that the “moral” is that people who stand up and do the right thing and die “get what they deserve”. I don’t agree with that.
If anyone would think that this is a “lesson” to people who would follow their conscience… to tell them to remain quiet and do nothing while hateful people do what they please… then the people who would try to teach such a “lesson” are evil, mentally ill, and just plain wrong.
The lesson here is to always have a “mad dog” law on the books, so things like this can be put down fast. Take him to the landfill and put a .45 in his ear, then bury him with the rest of the garbage.
Can you give us some tips on how to tell the difference before entering into the fray? Were there obvious signs those two gentlemen missed that might have made them realize this guy was going to literally kill them if they intervened?
You can’t tell how crazy a person is. Even someone not acting crazy might actually be crazy enough to kill you in an instant. But if someone is acting at all crazy you should be prepared for the worst. And even then there may be nothing you can do except stay away to be safe. The men in this incident were heroes coming to the aid of the defenseless and I praise them in memoriam for their actions. Without a full suit of body armor there may have been nothing more they could do to protect themselves.
Not quite true. They, clearly, didn’t expect him to be armed and go on the attack. If they had, they might not have gotten involved or might have handled things differently. The take-away point is that if you get involved in a confrontation with somebody who is a big enough asshole to act like that in the first place, be prepared for there to be no upper limit to his escalation. Be ready to deal with that, or don’t get involved.
What many who feel like him would prefer is for everyone else to feel intimidated and just back away out of an abundance of caution in the face of someone being openly abusive to the weaker.
Almost certainly the brave bystanders fully expected that they’d only be dealing with a loudmouth asshole, a common bully who when confronted 3-1 would just call them cucks before scurrying away, or maybe a couple punches thrown. They were not expecting a psycho on a mission to get his day made with deadly violence, or a paranoid delusional for whom EVERY physical confrontation must escalate to deadly force.
Then again, I wonder if the asshole in question may not have been acting up to begin with if sharing the car with two 6’5" 250lb brothers and three latinos who looked like Danny Trejo…
