The anti-doper forces seem to have targeted LA. Why?
The guy is a hero to a lot of people. What’s the point of working so hard to bring him down?
As the asshole Landis said, “If he didn’t win the TDF, then some other guy that was doping would have.”
Greg Lamond is a total self-absorbed hypocritical jerk. He was so good that he was clean and won when everybody was doping to the max? Gimmee a break. Even if, under some miracle, he wasn’t doping, his teammates were.
The investigator that is going after LA is a loser of the first degree. His case against Barry Bonds is falling apart and will probably be dismissed. He had BB dead on perjury which is something he doesn’t have against LA. Yet, he can’t make that case stick so why spend so much effort on LA?
LA has done more good then bad. What’s the agenda?
Is this something to try and prove that the case against BB was not racial and is something to try and save face?
I think this whole thing is BS. LA didn’t win because of doping. If he did dope it was to remain competitive against the guys that did dope. He won because he was the best. If there was doping it was to level the playing field.
If he doped and won he’s a cheat, no matter how many others did it too, no matter how nice a guy he is otherwise and deserves to be caught. If he did dope, until you know when he started doing it and what he did, you have no way of knowing how much of his success is due to him and how much due to doping.
The reason 'big winners get chased after nowadays is to try and make it so cheating doesnt win in the long run. Eventual disgrace has some deterrent effect, which is why they’re storing blood tests for the future where better testing may become available.
I don’t understand the title of this thread. If people are “gong after” Armstrong, how is that racially motivated? The Tour de France is pretty monolithically white. The people “going after” Armstrong are while. While it’s true that riders from many nations compete in teh TDF, they are pretty much all white (yes, I know there have been exceptions). Lemond is not only white, but American.
It’s funny the OP mentioned Barry Bonds, because I think the hatred for him, relative to Lance Armstrong, is, in part, racially motivated. But even so, they are both cheaters.
The guy that went after Bonds couldn’t make his case stick despite having much more evidence. Bonds probably perjured himself yet the prosecutor’s case is falling apart. In an effort to save face and appear to be “impartial” he’s going after Armstrong. The evidence against him is much weaker (he never tested positive) and Armstrong didn’t testify under oath.
This isn’t about an international investigation. It’s about an incompetent investigation of US athletes. Don’t confuse this with the European investigators. In the scheme of things cycling is such a minor sport in the US that it is ludicrous for investigators to attack it. Let the Europeans take care of it. It would be like English authorities mounting a huge investigation into illegal drug use of players in England playing American football.
The racial angle is the BS face-saving attempt of the investigator. “I can’t get the big black guy due to my incompetence, so I’ll go after the white icon just to prove that I’m racially blind and I have a purpose.” You want drugs, go look at football. If Armstrong is fooling the drug testers think what the football players are doing where strength and speed are everything. You think they are not hip to the tricks?
My problem is that if you are going to go back in time in a situation like this to prove someone is guilty then you have to go after everybody that competed, not just the winner. Bringing down the winner who tested negative while ignoring all of his competitors wreaks of an agenda, not justice.
Clean up all sports today. It doesn’t serve anyone to prove that athletes were dirty in the past. We know that and it wasn’t limited to the winners. Just as it wasn’t limited in baseball, football, track or other sports.
LeMond is a whiny hypocrite. His delicate ego couldn’t deal with the fact that he is not the greatest American bicycle racer ever. Nothing more needs to be said about him. Eddy Merckx, who was far greater than LeMond didn’t see an need to stoop to his level. Get lost, Greg.
From what I’ve heard (like third hand from a guy I know who rides and knows people who know Armstrong) Lance is a huge, egomaniacal asshole just in general and is disliked as a person by other riders. That probably doesn’t help him.
I think that was much more true of his younger years than it is now. The cancer bit mellowed and matured him. I’ve followed his career pretty closely since the early days, and he was definitely a cocky Texan back then.
Keep in mind that there is a lot of psychological mind games that the elite riders play with each other. The Europeans are famous for this. I don’t see Lance as being on the level of some of the European a-holes.
!) That “racial angle” is a bit beyond odd. Saving face by going after a high profile White guy instead of another Black guy, which it would be if not for “racism”? Pretty convoluted. And strange.
The case against Armstrong is most likely being pursued because they think they have a case and of the cyclists that they might have cases against (which for all I know is all of them) the greatest deterrence effect (to effect cleaning up sports today) is to had by having the highest profile cases: if you think you need to to cheat to win and you do cheat indeed do win then your victory will tainted and not hold, because you winners are who we will investigate more than anyone else. Cheat and lose? We don’t care so much.
His being either a nice guy or a grade A jerk is immaterial. Is he a high profile winner who they believe is both guilty and who they believe they can prove is guilty? Those are the issues that matter.
You have drunk of the LA coolaid. His standard tactic when faced with allegations of doping is to lash out violently against the motivations and character of his accusers. You sound like an LA press conference.
You are looking way too hard in obscure directions. Doping investigations into high profile sportspeople where there is evidence against them are the norm. Reading your OP is like entering some “through the looking glass” bizarro world. Who the hell wouldn’t be investigated in LA’s position?
“You have to go against everybody that competed?” Are you kidding me? The list of LA’s key competitors reads like a who’s who of cyclists who were investigated, caught and punished for doping. Hell, one of the common reasons for suspecting LA is that it is so hard to understand how he could have been clean while beating guys who have subsequently been proven to have been doped to the eyeballs. Again, which of LA’s competitors against which there is evidence have not been “gone after”? Do we live on the same planet?
I apologize for the tangent: I was under impression that the NFL was very proactive when it came to making sure their athletes weren’t doping. They have a more extensive program than the MLB when it comes to checking out and punishing players. Or at least that’s the impression that I’ve gotten. Is this false?
I haven’t had a drink of anyone’s Kool-Aid. It’s you that is carrying the delusion. Cycling, by comparison, is a very minor sport in the US. Armstrong became a sensation and the French (where cycling is a major sport) went after him. If they hadn’t have targeted him nobody in the US would give a shit about investigating him or cycling.
The guy doing the investigation is a total hack. There is little doubt the Bonds perjured himself yet this guy can’t seem to make the charge stick. He shit the bed on that one so he decides to target Armstrong. Who in America cares if some icon in a minor sport that has been tested repeatedly, never perjured himself and never showed a positive goes down. That’s a better target than the NFL, NBA, NHL, MLB and pro Tennis and it makes good headlines.
Maybe the racial aspect is a stretch but the whole thing stinks of an agenda.
People like Jackmanni act like cyclist have some magic formula for doping that is unknown to athletes in other sports. Gimmee a friggin’ break! If the cyclists are doing it you think that players in basketball, football, hockey, track & field, baseball and tennis aren’t using the same methods? (As if the the Williams sisters got that masculine muscle tone in the weight room. Who’s drinking the Kool-Aid?)
The NFL is the golden sport in the US. It is the huge money machine. While they have a testing program and have suspended minor players, the testing is highly flawed due to the agreement with the player’s union. It’s nothing close to what cyclists have to submit to. They don’t test for HGH and some other doping methods that are currently in use. If there is ever a candidate for an HGH test it has to be Brett Farve. It’s easy to turn a blind eye to the NFL. Taking them on would be suicidal. We’ve seen how much success there has been in taking on MLB. Almost none.
I have no idea why you think that cycling’s comparative lack of profile in the US means that illegal acts shouldn’t be investigated. Minor legal infringements are investigated and prosecuted all the freakin’ time. Your focus on insulting those involved, and trying to come up with reasons why there must be some nefarious motivation for investigating speaks, nay shouts, volumes.
First of all, if these alleged illegal acts occurred, most of them occurred outside the United States. During the time, Armstrong maintained a residence outside of the US and much of his “work” and training was in Europe. During that same time, sports in the US were full of illegal drug use. (BTW, it’s been about a year since there were any new developments regarding Roger Clemens perjury. That looks like another dead end.) Putting so much effort in attacking Armstrong is showboating by this prosecutor. It’s another case of letting the felons run free while the DA spends all his time prosecuting the minor criminals.
I would have sworn on a stack of bibles that I posted in this thread…damn gerbils must have eaten the post. Try again:
I’ve met various athletes in the past, many of them at the very top of their profession. At least 80% of were first-class jerks. I think that you probably need to be a first-class jerk if you’re going to be as confident and ultra-hyper competitive as you need to be to win seven TdFs.
I find it odd to think that so many of Lance’s teammates have been busted for doping - yet Lance, who according to Landis, was actively involved with the team’s doping, hasn’t been caught? That doesn’t make sense, does it? Surely Lance a.k.a. ‘the most tested athlete in history’ would have been caught at some point if he was on the same doping process/procedures as his teammates.
Many have noted that Lance is, shall we say, difficult to get along with. And many former teammates have been busted for doping - yet not one, until Landis (several years after the fact) has actually publically accused Lance directly? No one finds that odd?
Did Lance dope? Maybe. Given the track record for top cyclists the last 10-15 years, heck, it might be ‘probably’. But I will never ever take the word of Landis, a convicted cheat and confirmed liar. I will never listen to someone that would loudly protest his ‘innocence’ for four years, writing a book, for god’s sake, spending a million dollars of his supporters’ money, when he knew he was guilty all along. He is a scumbag of the lowest order. Go back and read the emails that went back and forth just before this story broke - it was a thinly disguised blackmail attempt, and was Landis was told to go away, he said 'F*** it, I’ll screw ‘em all’.
I live with a cancer survivor, and as such Lance means a lot to us. But show me a verifiable negative test, and we’ll be at the front of the line to kick him - until then, Landis et al. can STFU.