One of my new addictions is watching TikTok videos of “sovereign citizens” during traffic stops. Almost without exception, they ask for a supervisor to be called. In fairness, I’ve seen many videos of regular citizens doing the same thing. Is there any real point to it? I don’t think I’ve seen one yet where a supervisor shows up and says “OK, you can go.”
My assumption from having watched a lot of police bodycam videos of traffic stops is that these sorts of people are badly misinformed about the law and believe that if they can get someone more knowledgeable involved, they’ll get a different answer. I’ve never seen that happen.
It’s also why sovereign citizens tend to do this a lot – they’ve been brainwashed into a completely delusional view of the world. They usually seem very surprised when they get arrested. Some of them continue to believe in these delusions even after they’re charged, and take the case to court, represent themselves, and manage to make their situation a lot worse, like being charged with contempt.
I used to laugh until realized you can get a consistent million views on Youtube for harassing the cops, sounds like a decent income. The police must love these people as you don’t join up unless you enjoy confrontation.
Yeah. The driver is trying to be just a bit too much trouble thinking the cop will just go away.
Never happens.
I watch On-Patrol. I’ve seen one cop leave the traffic stop with a arguing Sov-cit because the radio was telling him of a multiple injury shooting.
You know that guy went to all his friends and bragged how he slickered a cop and beat getting a ticket.
They are very ridiculous.
You sometimes see these people trying to play the cops off each other. I.e. Telling cop #2 that cop #1 was violent, groping or just generally “hates me”.
So it’s not necessarily about the superior rank of the supervisor, versus just, basically, trying to call the cops on the initial attending cop.
I’ve never seen it work but then these YouTube clips are always a complete nutter and incredibly patient cops. And even if it were a calm person making a plausible accusation, presumably it doesn’t affect the arrest in any way but they will review the footage later.
1: To try to deescalate the situation when the cop is aggressive.
2: When you believe the cop is in the wrong to the point that a super will correct the situation right away.
Yes I’ve seen (on YT) supers tell the cop off and have the person be on their way. Not so much with SC stuff, but with other traffic infractions, illegal procedures no probable cause.
Regular workers…including cops…and me…handle regular problems.
When an unusual situation comes up to work through, someone higher up the chain of command is requested with the authority to make executive decisions.
As a valet driver I often am called upon to determine ownership of a vehicle if a valet ticket is lost.
I ask to see if the driver’s liscence…on their person…matches the registration in their glove box.
(The insurance card works, too.)
If the car is a rental, I ask to see the rental agreement, which contains the renter’s name, VIN #, and liscence plate #.
If I don’t have a match, I call my supervisor to make the executive decision, because it is now above my pay grade.
Getting a supervisor involved is standard operating procedure.
Not for a routine traffic stop, it isn’t. And all of the cases I’ve seen have been routine traffic stops, and the demand for a supervisor almost always comes from ignorant drivers who think they’ve been pulled over illegally – because, for instance, they’re not “driving a car”, they’re “travelling in a private conveyance” and therefore in their learned opinion they don’t need a driver’s license, plates, or insurance – the standard sovcit mantra. I’ve heard dozens and dozens of reasons why these lunatics demand a supervisor, and in no case has their complaint been valid – not one.
I’m sure it can happen. There are cops out there who are corrupt and others who are just ignorant. But in my experience this is very rare, and I’ve never in my life encountered it.
While people may rarely get out of trouble at traffic stops by calling for a supervisor, incidence of it working when used by sov cits declines to zero.
It’s one of two things or both: prolonging the confrontation for as long as possible because sov cits love confrontation, and the comically arrogant belief that their righteous bullshit will be acknowledged by someone who understands Natural Law or whatever slop they’re trying to sell.
It is done when the person believes the officer is violating their rights. With SovCits it is because they believe in some BS made up laws but I see many videos where it is the cops making a BS laws like when they tell a non-SovCit
You can’t take pictures in a public place AND
You need to answer my questions or I’ll arrest you for obstruction AND
You need to show me your ID because you are suspicious
(None of these statements by cops are true)
If Youtube is a fair sample then 50% of the time the supervisor will tell you that you are free to go. The other 50% of the time you will be arrested because ignorance of the law is an excuse for the police (read Qualified Immunity)
My favorite is when the supervisor shows up due to the SovCit’s request, then the SovCit refuses to follow directions because they claim to be scared since so many cops are around.
My brother-in-law used to be a deputy in California, and I asked him if he ever had to deal with sovereign citizens. The first thing out of his mouth was, “I hate those guys! ‘I’m not driving, I’m traveling.’” He didn’t run into any he felt were dangerous, they were just a pain in the rear.
I suspect a lot of people who aren’t sovcits ask for a supervisor during a traffic stop for the same reason people ask for a supervisor anywhere; they’re not getting the answer they want and they think the supervisor will help. Either the supervisor will give them what they want or the responding officer will decide they’re too much of a pain in the ass and let them go.
I thought you (and/or other people) in the other thread insisted they want to be arrested, so that they can then declare “Now we see the violence inherent in the system! Help! Help! I’m being repressed! Did you see him repressing me!?” in a morality theatre kind of way.
I’ve seen lots of videos of the same. Not your typical traffic infractions, but instances where the person should never have been stopped in the first place. There’s a vibe in a lot of law enforcement videos that the officers, having stopped the car, are determined to arrest someone for something and begin just fishing, and your civil rights be damned.
Often, supervisors will shut that down and let the person go, though I’ve seen about as many show up and say the person should have just waived their rights (though they don’t put it that way) and cooperated with their officer. That whole “If you’ve got nothing to hide, why not let us…?”
It’s routine for First Amendment auditors to ask for a supervisor if they are detained by law enforcement. Reason being… the auditor believes the detainment is unlawful (which it often is, IMO), and they’re hoping the supervisor will have a better understanding of the law.
I don’t know what happens IRL when someone makes a request like that but, were I a cop, I would tell them that they are very busy and that it could take a long time. If they still insisted, I’d make them wait two hours for one and, if they were dumb/obstinate enough to insist anyway, I’d enjoy watching them get enraged when they received the same answer.
And they would call and report a kidnapping, which is an oft-expressed take on being detained by the police. It’s a weird take, but common.
They are free to go at any time by simply canceling the request for a supervisor. That can’t be a kidnapping.
It’s magic word thinking. Say the proper magic words and you will get out of whatever situation you are in. Sovereign Citizens are at the far end of the spectrum. They have a full spell book they use. Others can be guilty of this too. They read something on the internet so at the time of their great agitation they pull out the magic words. Sure you can ask for a supervisor. If available they will come out. But maybe they are on another call. Maybe they are 20 miles away on the other end of the county. Maybe they are stuck on the desk. You saying “I want to talk to your supervisor” isn’t going to freeze things forever. Just because you uttered the phrase doesn’t mean things can’t proceed without a supervisor present. The magic words don’t give you the right to not present your license and documents required by your state. It’s not going to stop a ticket from being issued. It’s not going to let you stay in your car when ordered out (Pennsylvania v Mimms).
I don’t disagree. But it is also my understanding that many (most?) departments have a policy that a supervisor should be brought in 1) if requested, and 2) if a supervisor is available.
I disagree. Almost all I see is that they refuse to leave because they believe a building being owned by a government (post office, county building, courthouse) means they can go anywhere they want in that building and not be trespassed.
I wonder if part of the policy is to bring in a supervisor if an arrest is going to be made.