The USSC found in a split decision that flag desecration was constitutionally protected expression. This is the most relevant fact, for now, though only as relevant as the constitutionally protected individual (not just as a member of state organized militia) right to bear arms under Heller, constitutionally protected rights related to campaign contributions under Citizen’s United, etc. It’s not written in the constitution, and even if it were there’s nothing inherently wrong in believing the constitution has to be modified.
What other countries do is truly irrelevant on an issue like this though. And this would again be much more obvious in other more serious cases. A number of those ‘arguably more advanced than the US’ countries have a legal concept of ‘hate speech’, not inciting to riot or threatening particular individuals with harm, but just political statements that are too ‘socially divisive’. No thanks on that concept in the US.
And in the specific case it also ignores the basic reason the flag is a higher symbol in the US than some other countries: the US was organized around political idea(s), or substantially so. The listed countries were as a rule developed originally as ethnic nation states or ethnic unions/empires (UK), or only gradually transitioned to being separate from Britain. And I actually love Belgium (I can practice French there without having to go to France* ) but it’s a mess in terms of being any kind of united country at all. If there are really any issues where ‘most other developed countries…’ is a good argument, this definitely isn’t one of them.
*where, not that I care, flag burning is illegal and to some degree probably explainable in that French identity is also somewhat more wrapped up in the form of government than in common history as an ethnic group like say Norway.
I don’t like flag burning for sentimental reasons, and I oppose it for tactical ones. As a tactic, I think if must be reserved for the most dire circumstances, because it offends the very people one is trying to reach. My voice of sweet reason often falls on ears deafened by anger.
Actually, my whole point was based on figuring that he does understand protests.
I was totally figuring that he does understand that people are making a specific point when they launch into a general “LOCK HER UP” chant – that he does understand how the What-Do-We-Want-JUSTICE-When-Do-We-Want-It-NOW bit means nothing in particular by itself and yet can convey a contextual intent.
My response hinges on the idea that – since he presumably gets it right the rest of the time – he could just as easily get it right this time, too: realizing that, while burning a flag is as weirdly general as chanting “LOCK HER UP” or whatever, he can fill in the blanks for the former in exactly the same way he does for the latter: in exactly the same way that audiences routinely do.
I never said it was. But under the current interpretation of First Amendment rights, it is protected by constitutional principles.
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A number of those ‘arguably more advanced than the US’ countries […]
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Sorry if I confused you: I was not trying to claim that Australia, Belgium, and other countries that don’t ban flag desecration are “arguably more advanced than the US”. Nor was I advocating that the US should continue to resist banning flag desecration because these other countries do.
Why I called this “club” of flag-burning-permitting countries “prestigious” is not because it has Australia, Belgium, Romania, etc., in it, but rather because they—we—are upholding an important principle of prioritizing individual rights over national symbols.
I’m against it too. Again, I am not in any way trying to argue that the US should do whatever Canada, Norway, etc., do, “because they’re the cool kids” or for any other reason. Not banning flag desecration is a matter of principle, not a trendy gesture.
Well, as I noted, that’s not the argument I’m making.
How close to an American Flag does a piece of cloth or paper have to be to be considered an American Flag for the purposes of desecration laws? I ask because you sometimes see news reports of people burning hastily fabricated ‘flags’ which while bearing some passing similarity to an American Flag, would certainly offend the anti-burning crowd if they were hoist on a flagpole.
) but it’s a mess in terms of being any kind of united country at all. If there are really any issues where ‘most other developed countries…’ is a good argument, this definitely isn’t one of them.