Is it illegal to burn the US flag on US territory ? I’ve heard of several court cases about this, where the “burner” has claimed constitutional freedom of speech. What’s the story ?
I know that “Stars and Stripes burning”, and to a lesser extent Union Jack and Star of David Burning is almost a national pastime in certain countries, and that no TV reporter worth his salt travels without his flag and bottle of lighter fuel - anyone care to give an opinion.
Yeah, this is an old one, and has been hashed out many times in GD.
However, you’ve phrased it in a GQ manner. Good for you.
Anyway, I’m no news buff, but I think that the Supreme Court has decided that flag burning is protected as free speech and that an amendment would be needed to stop it. Which is why Conservatives have been attempting to pass that amendment.
I sold my soul to Satan for a dollar. I got it in the mail.
Some people do still get in trouble for it though. Not for “burning the flag”, but for other things, such as creating a fire hazard, or disturbing the peace, etc.
Things are random only insofar as we don’t understand them.
Indeed, the U.S. Supreme Court did rule on this matter in 1989 in the case Texas v. Johnson. The court was divided, but it ruled that burning the flag was protected by the First Amendment. Constitutional amendments permitting congress to prohibit flag burning have been voted on in congress 4 times in the past 10 years, most recently 2 weeks ago. Each time they have narrowly failed. So, the law currently cannot prohibit you from burning a flag.
As long as it’s your flag, and you do so in a safe and reasonable manner, etc.
(You may think this is obvious, but I’ve had people argue with me that they’ve heard of cases of people stealing flags and burning them, or burning them dangerously or whatnot.)
It makes me cringe to read this. You’re right, but I sure would prefer the phrasing some conservatives. There are basically religious-, economic-, and libertarian-conservatives. We libertarian ones recognize that flag burning is a political statement and that the first amendment was created specifically to protect political statements, so we realize that flag burning is pretty much exactly the kind of thing the first amendment was created for.
>flag burning is pretty much exactly the kind of thing the first amendment was created for.
Two questions:
What message is exactly being sent by a flag burning?
How does a the message sent by a flag burning differ from that of a cross burning? (Assuming it’s your own cross.) And why should they be treated differently?
People generally burn flags to show their displeasure with what the flag symbolizes – i.e.: America or more specifically American Government. Cross burning is usually not for an expression of displeasure towards what the cross symbolizes (Christ or Christianity). If we are talking about the practice of burning a cross on someone’s lawn, the purpose here is to intimidate. I’m not sure if this counts as terrorism, but the purpose is to instill fear and can easily be interpreted as a threat. Also keep in mind that it may be your cross, but it ain’t your lawn.
Okay, I’m really flogging a dead horse on this one, but my attempt to cultivate a thread in GD just got shut down, so I’ll repeat myself once again:
The ideal punishment for burning an American flag is to be burned in effigy. A symbolic punishment for a symbolic crime, and no constitutional amendments neccessary.
It is a slap in the face to everyone serving to defend this country, past, present and future, and to those, military and civilian, who paid the ultimate price in support of freedom.
I may not (and don’t) always agree with our government or current administration, but I will defend unto death the ideas and the country our flag represents.
If you don’t like our government, then work to change it from within the framework of the constitution, or leave the country.
despite her many faults, you will find no freer country on the face of the planet.
VB
Some people say that cats are sneaky, evil, and cruel. True, and they have many other fine qualities as well.
Please, folks. There is a Great Debates thread on flag-burning here . In GQ, please confine your remarks to the history of flag-burning, current and past laws dealing with the practice and current proposed legislative and judicial trends regarding the practice.
Cuz Gaudere’s gonna kill me if I shoot one more flag thread over there. Thanks.
It is a slap in the face to everyone serving to defend this country, past, present and future, and to those, military and civilian, who paid the ultimate price in support of freedom.
Freedom for what Blue? Freedom to protest the going ons in this government. The forefathers put forth the first amendment because of flag burning. Where they were came from anything said against the government was illegal. They wanted us to have the God given right to express our dislike and disapproval any way we wanted (as long as it is safe and not unruly) The whole idea of the flag is that we have the right to burn it. Should we? Hell no! That flag is what binds us together as a country as a people. That flag is what defines us as a people. And it is for that exact reason, that freedom that our forefathers fought so hard for, that we must protect our right to burn our flag. Because if we don’t everything that they died for, every man woman and child that died gaining and protecting our freedom died for NOTHING and I will not let them be forgotten!
Burning a cross is also constitutionally protected, as long as you’re burning your own cross. You may not trespass or otherwise break the law in burning your cross.
As for the symbolism of flag-burning, it’s pretty obvious and pretty self-defeating. It’s a politically stupid thing to do because nothing is going to turn people away from your cause faster than torching Old Glory. But the First Amendment protects stupid expression too, and the freedom that allows Vestal Blue to implore us not to burn flags is the same freedom that allows those who disagree with him to light up.
As far as flag-burning being a slap in the face to members of the armed forces, as I recall they swore an oath to protect and defend the Constitution. That includes defending those parts of the Constitution for which they don’t particularly care.
The US flag is much like the US Constitution, in that its value is extrinsic rather than intrinsic. The flag is a piece of cloth with a pattern on it; the Constitution is a piece of paper with ink on it. Neither is particularly valuable in and of itself–it’s the ideas and ideals behind them that count.
So if morons want to burn the flag, they should be free to do so…because of the very idea that flag symbolizes. This makes the act a public admission of stupidity…not that public stupidity ever stops anyone.
As for stealing someone else’s flag and burning it (which was the case in Texas v. Johnson)–hey, theft is theft.
The American says, “In America, we have freedom of speech. I can stand on lawn of the White house and shout, ‘The USA sucks!’ and no one will arrest me.”
The Soviet replies, “In Soviet Union, we have freedom of speech. I too can stand at door of the Kremlin and shout, ‘The USA sucks!’”
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.