[QUOTE=msmith537]
Ok, well if you have something more important to do than getting laid, I’m interested in hearing about it.
[/QUOTE]
Some of us religious people consider our relationship with God (or whatever) to be more important than sex in our lives.
[QUOTE=Anne Neville]
Some of us religious people consider our relationship with God (or whatever) to be more important than sex in our lives.
[/QUOTE]
Like I said, pathological and warped, due to religion.
[QUOTE=Der Trihs]
I dont think it’s easy; in fact in most cases I consider that to be the point. Guilt and suffering, like I said in my first post.
[/QUOTE]
I had no guilt, and suffering isn’t exactly how I would describe it. It’s basically like anything you try to moderate because you think it’s bad for you in one way or another.
All birth control is unreliable (except maybe sterilization), depending on how reliable you need it to be. At the time, I needed a 100% guarantee. Now, once I am done gestating the current child, I will hope that whatever method we use works, but I will not be in desperate NEED for it to work, as I was when I was 20.
BUT what you are missing is that there is a huge moral component to my decision. First of all, I believe it is immoral to risk bringing an unwanted child into the world, especially when the relationship one is involved in is not necessarily permanent. I believe that it is important morally to be responsible for one’s actions. In my opinion, the only moral choice for me at that age would be to give a child up for adoption, and I was pretty sure that I did not want to be in the position to have to make that choice.
I think you would be surprised at the number of “normal” people who feel the way Anne Neville does. It’s a matter of setting priorities and realizing that sex is not all that important in the greater scheme of things.
[QUOTE=Der Trihs]
Like I said, pathological and warped, due to religion.
[/QUOTE]
That is not the least bit warped, and I would love to hear your evidence for believing it to be.
You should probably also apologize to Anne Neville, but I won’t hold my breath.
I just think the rush to judgment against straight-edge or celibate people is weird, especially from posters who (I presume) would never tell a sexually active gay person that their choices are warped or wrong, or that their life is incomplete, or that they are obligated to justify their sexuality to people who don’t agree.
[QUOTE=Der Trihs]
Like I said, pathological and warped, due to religion.
[/QUOTE]
So is someone pathological and warped if anything is more important to them in their lives than sex? What about someone whose marriage is important to them, so they don’t sleep with anyone other than their spouse, even if they meet someone who they would like to sleep with if they were not married- are they pathological and warped due to marriage? Is someone like Sarahfeena pathological and warped because her desire to not become pregnant was more important than sex to her?
Not doing things for moral reasons isn’t exclusive to religious people- the atheists I know do have morals.
[QUOTE=msmith537]
Are you waiting until marriage or until you meet someone with who you would consider marriage? IOW, I can understand not having one night stands to avoid potential drama or health concerns, however I don’t understand not having sex with someone you are in a serious relationship with, even if it doesn’t end up in marriage. …
[/QUOTE]
Mainly religious.
In addition, I believe that sex outside of marriage is in the final analysis, harmful to me. My experience has not dissuaded me from this stance. The lack of commitment makes me uncomfortable with one-night stands. Birth control and the risks of STD are certainly less of a worry and I am not convinced that, for me, a long term relationship that leads to sexual activity but not marriage is a relationship that I want.
Having sex for me, is not enjoyable if it’s not with someone that’s going to be committed to me and visa-versa. It’s one of the most intimate expressions of trust and oneness and I feel it cheapens me to lower it a level of something I do for fun with whoever catches my eye that week. Your mileage may indeed vary.
First tell us what you think the point of living is. Then maybe we can tell you whether indulging in “vices” contributes to or detracts from that point.
The thing about vices is that they can be harmful, even to the point of wrecking your life, or at least preventing you from doing what you want to or should be doing with that life. They can be harmful in numerous different ways (I can list some if you really think it’s necessary).
Whether they will be harmful depends on all sorts of things like your strength of character, luck, genetic and psychological susceptibility to addiction, etc. For some people, the safest course of action is to abstain completely.
[QUOTE=Thudlow Boink]
First tell us what you think the point of living is.
[/QUOTE]
The point is that you only get one life and it doesn’t last all that long. You need to figure out a balance between going crazy like each day is your last and planning for the fact that it probably won’t be.
And having no sex drive is NOT normal. Sex is a fundamental urge built into the species.
[QUOTE=Autumn Almanac]
Just so I’m clear: Do you acknowledge any valid, non-pathological reason(s) an unmarried person might choose to abstain from sex (even if many or most people make that choice for invalid reasons)?
[/QUOTE]
Emotional entanglements? I’ve had premarital sex myself but I’ve never engaged in sexual activities with someone I didn’t love.
Marc
As someone else mentioned earlier I have to wonder if some of these are really vices. A vice is a habit that’s morally repugnant.
Sex before marriage? Nope, not a vice.
Drinking? Nope, drinking alcohol is not a vice.
Gambling? Again, not a vice.
Marc
[QUOTE=msmith537]
I just think it’s odd for anyone to take an absolute stance on anything, whether that’s not drinking, not eating meat or not wearing orange. I mean how does someone decide they NEVER drink? An occassional beer with friends? A glass of wine with dinner? What do they think will happen? One drink and they’ll go off on this downward spiral?
Certain things I can understand. Not smoking or shooting heroin because they are highly addictive. Not doing drugs because they are illegal. But you can have a few beers at a college keg party without turning into some reject from Animal House.
[/QUOTE]
But why would it matter if I chose not to have a couple of drinks, if I still choose to socialise? What difference do these decisions make to anyone else but me? For the record, I am an atheist, but I have never drunk, smoked or taken drugs, I’m vegetarian, and I delayed full sex until I was relatively old for certain birth control, as has been mentioned previously.
I don’t feel my life is lesser for it, and I think these choices - only a few in a huge number of choices I have made in life to do/not do things, are some of the least interesting things about me. Perhaps the difference is I don’t regard them as ‘vices’, but simply situations which lead to a certain range of outcomes (for me or for others), and I weigh these up and decide whether to proceed.
I certainly don’t feel like I am denying myself, in fact I am happy as I get to live to satisfy my own rules.
Eh, I guess we all have different ideas about what makes for a fun or interesting life. I don’t do any of those “vices” but it’s not because of being a super-uptight, religious person. I just don’t find those kinds of activities appealing or fun like some other people do.
-I don’t consider gambling immoral, but it does seem like throwing money away to me. Since I hate wasting money, I would rather just keep the money in my pocket and put it towards something more concrete than a slim chance of winning.
-I’ve never done any illegal drugs, partially because I don’t want to do anything stupid under the influence, partially because it would ruin my career if I were to get busted for drugs, and partially because enough weird crap happens in my life as it is, that I don’t need to spice things up with drug-induced hallucinations. 
-I don’t drink alchohol simply because most booze tastes unpleasant to me, I don’t want to end up doing something stupid while under the influence (again), and I know I’d hate the feeling of being hungover or puking.
-I am a soon-to-be 24 year old virgin, in every sense of the word. One reason for that is probably that I used to be fat, and hence didn’t date much while I was a teen. I can’t say that I feel I missed out on much, since I get the impression most teenaged boys are not particularly skilled or generous as sex partners.
Nowadays, I am attractive enough to get laid, and do in fact have a strong sex drive, but for some silly reason I do want to make sure that the first guy I sleep with is a special person, and just haven’t had the right relationship yet where I felt that it was the right time to give it up…and at the same time, my standards for men have become higher now that I am a confident, semi-attractive adult than they were when I was a naive teen with low self esteem. Hey, even if most people do have premarital sex (which I can agree with although I am skeptical of the number being as high as the survey quoted earlier claims), not everyone wants to sleep with just any random person.
Working in the health field has helped convince me that casual sex isn’t the way I want to go more than any religious sentiment has. I have had a chance to treat guys that, had I met them on a blind date, I wouldn’t have guessed were harboring that raging case of genital warts that I saw them in the office for.
Pregnancy isn’t that scary to me, since I am at an place in life where I think I could handle being a mom, but I suppose it is a nice little extra bonus to know with 100% certainty that I am not pregnant and there’s nothing to stress out over if I’m a little late this month.
So, I guess for me, there’s not really any “point” to it. I don’t have any conviction that some Higher Being will reward me for avoiding doing this stuff. I just haven’t felt any particular need to engage in these vices yet. There are lots of other things in life that I find fun and rewarding, so I don’t feel deprived or like I’m missing out on anything.
[QUOTE=MGibson]
As someone else mentioned earlier I have to wonder if some of these are really vices. A vice is a habit that’s morally repugnant.
[/QUOTE]
Why don’t we not start a semantics debate in this thread, ok? For the purpose of this discussion, we are considering a “vice” to be the classic potentially unhealthy or morally questionable activities that people commonly partake in. Examples, as stated, include:
-Drinking
-Smoking
-Illegal drug use
-Promiscuous sexual activity
-Gambling
lavenderviolet - I think your problem is, to paraphrase a certain movie, is that you are putting the penis on a pedestal. To a certain extent, MGibson is right. Most of these things in moderation are not a big deal. That includes sex. Most people’s first time is not “magical” and “special”. It’s usually a bit awkward and uncomfortible.
[QUOTE=msmith537]
Most people’s first time is not “magical” and “special”. It’s usually a bit awkward and uncomfortible.
[/QUOTE]
It can’t be both?
You know, some of the most interesting, fascinating people I’ve known in my life have been Catholic nuns. Some of the things they’ve seen and experienced are far beyond what most people have.
It’s not your “vices” that make you-it’s your total life experience.
[QUOTE=msmith537]
lavenderviolet - I think your problem is, to paraphrase a certain movie, is that you are putting the penis on a pedestal. To a certain extent, MGibson is right. Most of these things in moderation are not a big deal. That includes sex. Most people’s first time is not “magical” and “special”. It’s usually a bit awkward and uncomfortible.
[/QUOTE]
If she is-SO WHAT? It’s her body, and she has every decide what she does with it. Having sex-or not-should be a personal decision. It’s certainly none of your business what she does in bed.
Why does that bother you so much? Why are you so obsessed with everyone who doesn’t believe as you do? This isn’t the first time you’ve started a topic like this.
I admit I’d like not to be a 28-year-old virgin (by now I’m assuming most of you know my history, so I’m not going to go into it), but I’ll be damned if I’m going to sleep with the first guy I see. In my case, it’s more that circumstances just happened to work out that way. Oh well. Quite frankly, it’ll happen when it happens. I’m not going to make decisions based on what YOU, or anyone else, thinks I should do.
And if that makes me dull and boring, well, so be it. At least I’m not a sheep.
Everyone is different. People prioritize the way they see fit. Some people connect love and sex and respect and some are able to see them as separate entities. Some people enjoy stepping outside themselves once in a while via drugs and alcohol. Some people enjoy the thrill of gambling. The presence or absence of any of these activities is just that. I don’t see the point in looking any deeper into the act (or lack of). You do or you don’t. End of discussion.
I suppose it would be like wanting a garden free of weeds. It is something that is very tough to do.
Many through history have contended the vices give of little real pleasure, that a life of virtue, of service to others brings the most pleasure.
Of course, it all shows we are all different. Some simply choose to live one way, some another.
Oh ok..I guess we can close the thread down then :rolleyes:
[QUOTE=Guinastasia]
If she is-SO WHAT? It’s her body, and she has every decide what she does with it. Having sex-or not-should be a personal decision. It’s certainly none of your business what she does in bed.
Why does that bother you so much? Why are you so obsessed with everyone who doesn’t believe as you do? This isn’t the first time you’ve started a topic like this.
[/QUOTE]
I don’t believe I’m the one getting bothered and defensive. If you don’t want your personal life to be “my business” then don’t post to my threads.
I “get it”. Some have you have made various lifestyle decisions. That’s your right. I’m just trying curious about why people completely deprive themselves of certain things.
Another thing, just because a lot of people enjoy doing something does not make them “sheep”. More often than not, if your right and everyone else is wrong, the problem might be with you, not with the rest of the world.
It can. I guess the point I’m trying to make is that, for most people, they usually get their first time out of the way by their late teens. Usually with some about as inexperienced as they are. As you wait longer, you start building it up in your mind and can maybe psych yourself out. You expect a higher and more unrealistic level of perfection for your “First”. Not to mention, people get a little weirded out by a thirty year old virgin.