Please, even the term “political activist” is a stretch with guys like O’Keefe.
Once again, the other ACORN tape dispelled any ideas that there was any intention to look for the truth, he was looking for **anything **to discredit his target, no matter if it was not true.
Ibn Warraq, back in post #109 I asked for a cite for your claim that
[QUOTE=Ibn Warraq]
The fact is there are massive numbers of people all over the world who identify themselves as Christians but who don’t believe in the divinity of Jesus.
[/QUOTE]
What’s your point?
That’s basically what I said and I don’t disagree with anything you said.
I can’t offer a cite, but I saw a survey in the 90’s that purported to indicate that the majority of American Christians did not belive in the divinity of Jesus. I don’t trust surveys in general, but it wouldn’t surprise me. I have seen other analyses about religious beliefs in Europe that support that as well. My personal experience also includes many people who identify themselves as Christians, but do not believe in the divinity of Jesus.
It doesn’t seem to be particularly uncommon that a certain percent of Christians disbelieve in Jesus’ divinity.
[
I am not sure that if indeed it was done by the news qualifies it as news. The similarity is they both create the condition. Without their intervention there would be no crime at all. In Okeefes case, there were no crimes. He just edited film to create the illusion. It fired up enough rightys that it was not ignored like it should have been.
This is a poll of canadians, not Christians.
No, you are the one making an assertion. Please provide evidence that Orthodox Jews do not rexognize Reform Jews as ethic Jews. You are still confusing ethnicity with religion.
Because those groups have an ethnic identity outside of religion. Muslims do not.
I don’t think this at all. Islam is religiously closer to Judaism than to Christianity.
tjhos Jewish groups have a shared genetic heritage. Those Muslims groups do not. They sim,ply share a religion.
What does ummat al-mu’minin mean in Arabic? Why won’t you answer that question?
Er, no one said most Christians don’t believe the divinity of Jesus, just that there are self-identified Christians who don’t believe in the divinity of Jesus.
You denied that this was the case and have been proven wrong.
No it hasn’t. This alleged poll says that 70% of Canadians believe in the Divinity of Christ, not 70% of Christians. Canadians are not synonomous with Christians. Anyone who doesn’t believe in the divinity of Christ is not a Christian. That’s what the word means. It doesn’t mean anything else.
There were two sentences. You didn’t read past the first. This is… bad.
Dio, it was two single sentences. You really refuse to read that much? Here, I’ll underline the relevant portion.
Rather obviously, active United Church members are Christians.
Meh, I thought the Ian Murphy recordings were amusing and not too surprising. I didn’t expect much more from Walker. I didn’t find them particularly damning though.
But if this doesn’t make it crystal clear what a piece of crap O’Keefe is and how he is different, I don’t know what will:
The best media planners have to go to school for years, dabble in marketing and public relations, psychology, and all that stuff. Everything they do is analyzed and taken apart to best sell their product. Opinion makers must go to really good schools to become that dumb. And the major institutions employ hundreds to thousands of people. O’Keefe just winged it on his own, so the work was much more shoddy.
They also aren’t a representative sample of Christians in Canada. They are members of one church with an anomalous pastor. The story also doesn’t say that those members of that church self-identify as Christians.
Wow.
Wow what? You cited a poll of Canadians and tried to pass it off as a poll of Christians.
O’Keefe is just getting as many people to talk to him as possible. Then he tries to find something that can be twisted into damning his target. His aim is to destroy something, like ACORN. If you talk to enough people you can get someone in a bad mood of disgruntled enough to say something useful . If not, he could edit it to achieve his aims.
That is not news.
Also, come on. The United Church of Canada? That’s a church based more on tea and cookies than actual religion. (How do you know a Unitarian lives in your neighbourhood? There’s a question mark burned on your lawn.) To say that’s a representative Christian group is to say that beer league softball is representative of competitive sports.
And it wouldn’t even work if there weren’t so many people willing to rationalize or dismiss or, when necessary, simply ignore what he’s doing simply because his efforts align with their own partisan preferences.
But there are “so many people”. Even here on this board.
You posted before that Diogenes was wrong for saying that “ACORN employees answered questions they didn’t answer and said things they didn’t say.”
I’m saying that condemning O’Keefe for that bit may be dubious if it was the only item coming from O’Keefe, but the other ACORN tape shows things that were not true at all and still they tried to pass it as news, indeed those were things that the employee said, but the context was missing. As the evidence shows that there were also changes made to the audio and editing in the first tape, it is a wonder why anyone is still defending O’Keffe even on that item. Specially when one takes into account all the other stunts that he tried to pull off.