The evidence that the Saudi government sponsored Al Qaeda is right up there with Iraqi nuclear weapons. It is true that many Saudis supported Al Qaeda, and that Saudi Arabia was negligent in putting a stop to it for fear of inciting their radicals. However, Saudi Arabia did not knowingly support Al Qaeda, and even if they did, that stopped and they are now fighting them.
We gave Afghanistan and opportunity to denounce 9/11 and turn over their terrorists. They refused on both counts. They committed an act of war and even given a second chance to avoid a war they didn’t take it. Saudi Arabia and Pakistan, the only two supporters of the Taliban and significant funders of Al Qaeda, did.
So I guess I should clarify. In the event of a Hezbollah attack on the US, Syria and Iran will likely be given ultimatums. What they decide to do with those ultimatums will decide their regimes’ survival.
Why big chance they will "DECIDE" anything... just like Iraq tried to collaborate but just got kicked around. Especially if its near the election... haha ... forget ultimatums... they will get tomahawk strikes trying to "decapitate" the leadership once more.
Well, said, Avenger. Apparently our GOOD BUDDIES the Saudis can attack us at will and never even get accused. Because if any nation bears the bulk of the responsibility for 9/11, it’s Saudi Arabia. Not Iran. And not Iraq.
Ah, I see we are now resorting to Jew-baiting to discredit me? I thought you were above that.
But anyway, I do think Israel has done a lot of things wrong. I also know they are at war. I also believe that we unfairly expect them to uphold Western standards of justice but do not expect their enemies to do so. As I recall, all of our nations have been at war, and none of them have hestitated to do whatever needed to be done to ensure that we won. I also object to the outright lies told about Israel, the modern day blood libels that people still manage to believe.
You will never hear me criticize a Palestinian for killing an IDF soldier. A Palestinian views them as occupiers, and they have much justification for believing that, as brutal as the IDF has been. And likewise, I won’t criticize Israel for doing raids that kill Hamas leaders. What I will criticize is Palestinians intentionally avoiding contact with IDF forces to kill women and children who have nothing to do with their plight.
Or even worse, kill Jews in places like Argentina. What in the blue hell is the point of that, other than to satisfy their irrational hatred of Jews in general? YOu don’t see Jews arbitrarily targeting mosques in say, Mongolia?
Funny, I thought stopping genocidal maniacs was a part of Western justice. I’d thought that letting them commit their genocide was what right-wing isolationist governments did.
There won’t be an Iranian invasion until sometime after 2004 at the least, and, even if there is one, I’d expect that our government will try to get the UN to do something, or wait for Iran to engage in agressive acts.
Then take my bet. Put your money where your moth is, and make a serious prediction about the US invading Iran. You won’t, because you know it isn’t going to happen. If you want to slam Bush for something he’s actually done, go right ahead. Smearing him for something you think he might do? That’s pretty lame, Des. Especially when you’re unwilling to back it up with a clear statement of what you expect to happen.
Agreed. Whats your point? I never said it was a good idea.
From From Desmostylus
Well, I suppose to you there is just a tiny bit of difference from males and females, or night and day. Not ALL of Bush’s bullshit was made up, so stop waving your arms about. Instead, tell me what YOU think would convince Congress AND the American people to invade Iran at this time. I can think of nothing, unless they provoke us.
From Desmostylus
Any American president, or politician for that matter, that tried to touch the Draft third rail, will fry. And while I, for one, think that most of them are morons, they are also pretty adept at political stuff…they would all know this. I trust them to look after their own skins on this issue.
The folks who are fretting over a war with Iran (that means you, Desmostylus) are, IMHO, worrying for no reason other than paranoia over America.
Personally, I think there’s been plenty of tacit agreements going on between the U.S. and Iran over Iraq, and the chances of a war between the two countries is rather remote in the short term.
Why do I think there have been a short term marriage of convenience between the U.S. and Iran?
First, did you notice how the Shiite cleric, Muqtada al-Sadr, who had been quite an anti-American troublemaker since the war began, made an amazing turnaround and called the troops “guests” instead of infidel occupiers?
The fact is that the U.S. realizes that without the Shiites’ support, we don’t have a prayer in Iraq. Another fact is that the Iranian government probably realizes that their hold on power is slowly eroding as the Iranian people grow more restless with life under a theocracy (and the American military on both their western and eastern borders.
By coming to a tacit agreement with the Iranians, the U.S. gains an ally against the Sunnis who are fueling the insurgency. By coming to a tacit agreement with the U.S., Iran protects its border for a while. The uncertainty to both countries is how this short term deal will play in the long-term, but both figure they will cross that bridge when they come to it.
I don’t think they’ll invade Iran. It would be a monumentally stupid thing to do, and hopefully the administration recognises that.
I already said I wouldn’t put a large amount of money on it. You want me to say “I’ll bet that Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld won’t do something stupid”? Given the track record, no way.
Why do you want his money to be fluttering around the porch light?
Even if the political developments of the past week that have been mentioned in this thread were to suddenly unravel, I’d still agree that the chance of the US invading Iran in 2004 is zero. We don’t have the troop strength for it, and after what’s happened in the past year or so, there’s not a nation of consequence anywhere in the world that would even provide moral support. And finally, of all the Middle Eastern countries, Iran is the one most likely to become a democracy on its own within 10 years. If our foreign-policy crew has any brains whatsoever (a condition that may or may not be satisfied, come to think of it), they don’t want to fuck this up.
Exactly, although a terrorist attack by an Iranian-backed group could spark a war. Fortunately, the Iranian groups seem to be significantly more rational than Al Qaeda and have been laying low. Or they really want to kill Americans but Iran knows not to pull that kind of stunt right now.
I’ll agree with the first two. The second two are rather recent concepts that are not fully accepted by anyone, much less the US. There are generally considered to be limits to soveriegnty. For example, dictators do not have the right to commit genocide, and there is precedent for member states to act without SC approval to stop a genocide in progress. As for assassination of leaders, I would say that is wrong in peacetime, but is perfectly legal in war.
Now if you want to go into dodgy territory of WHEN doing the first two is “right” go ahead… I think that once you set yourself a standard… to drop it so fast for convenience and expediency in conducting war means they were never taken seriously at all.
These all are part of current "western justice"... like I said before. Never mind what you are doing.
What is it with US’ers that the only thing they can think of seems to be the invasion of sovereign nations. As if that is the most reasonable thing to do.
Answer:
It means they are that brainwashed by their blood hungry greedy criminal government that they stopped reasoning.
Or:
They are that criminal lunatic and unbelievable arrogant that they think the USA owns the world and that the world needs to be the USA slave.
You make your choice… But whatever you choose it makes you a bunch of delusional lunatics hungry for other people’s blood (and country including its natural resources… Of course just a minor detail)
In any case: I do hope that those who are that much in favour for going to invade and kill are ready to invade and kill in the frontline = in a man to man battle. Otherwise you are also cowards.
Salaam. A
