“mind-controller”
“anti-American instructor”
“terrorist sensei”
Indeed and that is ultimately where the problem lies. For instance:
Franklin Roosevelt associated with Josef Stalin. (fact)
Therefore, Roosevelt was a pinko commie bastard. (assertion)
Bit of a reach you ask me. Despite this association with Ayers can you point to any examples of Obama espousing radical, terrorist policies? Have any of his actions ever indicated any such thing?
Uh…my ‘talking points’ come from Wikipedia and BrainGlutton’s previous post.
You appear to be arguing with something that exists only in your own mind. I’ve never claimed that anyone said Obama is a terrorist, in fact I’ve never mentioned the word terrorist. You pulled that out of thin air.
My only claim was that an author’s conclusions can be completely false even is their premises are true. For some unexplicable reason you turned that into an argument about terrorism.
??? I never said you did. You guys should try to argue the actuals statements made rather than ones that just pop into your head.
I’ve never been in a room with Senator McCain, but I’m pretty sure he dropped a fair number of bombs on North Vietnam.
Nevermind
Since none of the conservatives here have articulated this position (I have no idea why), let’s toss this guy’s opinion out there:
Myself, my reactions are “so what,” “so what,” and “not really/unproven.” But I thought I’d at least get it out there as a possible talking point.
I wasn’t talking to you, I was talking to Weirddave. That “launched his political career from Bill Ayres’ living room” line is a direct Sean Hannity mantra.
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The CAC did not "pour more than $100 million into the hands of “radical education activists.” (whatever the fuck those are). It gave millions to 210 different public schools and public school supporters in Chicago to help children learn and have better lives.
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“The CAC was the brainchild of Bill Ayers,” While Ayers wrote the grant application, he was not, in any way, the sole “brainchild” of the CAC. It actually started with the decentralization of schools in Chicago in 1998 and involved numerous people, including, most importantly, Anne Hallett and Warren Chapman.
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“Barack Obama’s first run for the Illinois State Senate was launched at a 1995 gathering at Mr. Ayers’s home.” That one meeting did not “launch” Obama’s first run for Senate, it had been planned for awhile before then.
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“Yet documents in the CAC archives make clear that Mr. Ayers and Mr. Obama were partners in the CAC.” A gross simplification. It’s like saying the janitor of the GM plant and Bill Ford are partners. They were both involved in the same program, yes, but pretending they were “partners” is more rhetorical bullshit.
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“In early 1995, Mr. Obama was appointed the first chairman of the board, which handled fiscal matters. Mr. Ayers co-chaired the foundation’s other key body, the “Collaborative,” which shaped education policy.” There were actually 3, not 2, parts to the CAC. Kurtz, as he is wont to do, is wrong.
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“Yet the archives show that, along with Ms. Leff and Ms. Graham, Mr. Ayers was one of a working group of five who assembled the initial board in 1994.” Ayers was one of 5 people who OK’ed Obama, but he had nothing to do with getting Obama to that point.
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“Mr. Ayers founded CAC and was its guiding spirit. No one would have been appointed the CAC chairman without his approval.” More bullshit. The CAC was not Mr. Ayers’ to found, he was one person among hundreds, involved in a program that tried to help public schools. And he wasn’t the “guiding spirit”. The CAC was founded according to the principles of, and was run pursuant to, the Annenberg Challenge.
If you’re interested, you can read about it by clicking here. It includes the principles and goals of the Annenberg Challenge, which, oddly enough, Ayers had nothing to do with.
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“The CAC’s agenda flowed from Mr. Ayers’s educational philosophy, which called for infusing students and their parents with a radical political commitment, and which downplayed achievement tests in favor of activism.” Another lie. The CAC was bound to use the principles and goals of the Annenberg Challenge. Read the link.
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“CAC translated Mr. Ayers’s radicalism into practice.” Again, Ayers had nothing to do with setting the principles and goals of the Annenberg Challenge.
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“Proposals from groups focused on math/science achievement were turned down. Instead CAC disbursed money through various far-left community organizers, such as the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now (or Acorn)” Not every proposal focused on math/science was turned down, just as not every partner was a “far-left community organizers”. Almost a third were Chicago colleges and universities. Another quarter were arts and cultural institutions like the Chicago Syphony and Suzuki school for young musicians. And another quarter were education services and education reform groups. Only 15% were “community organizations” and oddly enough ACORN wasn’t listed on them. Click here for the rest of the article
You know, I’d keep going, but at this point, it’s just kinda academic. Kurtz’s “opinion” piece is just the same recycled garbage, with a few lies thrown in for good measure.
Dance, puppets, dance!
Make those excuses, deny those facts, spin like a motherfucker!
Pathetic.
“anarchist puppetmaster”
Dave, I like you. But you’re being a jagoff with idiotic, substanceless posts like this. Just so you know.
It may all be true. shrug
You know what? I don’t give a flying fuck. Nobody under the age of 50 who isn’t a wingnut gives a damn about Ayers, the Weathermen, radical leftists, or the 60s.
Obama is a demonstrably better presidential candidate than John McCain. That’s all I care about. If Obama had consorted with Zero Mostel, Eugene V. Debs and Squeeky Fromme, I would not care. All I care about is keeping a Republican out of the White House for the next indeterminate number of years. Give me candidates with firmly demonstrated ties to the Sierra Club, the American Communist Party and the Weather Underground. I don’t give a shit! As long as they’re Democrats (or, failing that, at least competent and not in the pocket of people who are better off than I’ll ever be and determined to be more so by walking on my fucking back).
That part was a joke.
Love,
Sarah (who actually has brown hair)
Liberals never fail to amuse me; Bush called Ken Lay “Kenny Boy” so, of course, that meant he was at least partially responsible for the collapse of Enron. But Barack Obama spending his early political career working alongside a domestic terrorist who tried to blow up the Pentagon? Well, that means nothing! Move along, folks. Nothing to see here!:rolleyes:
At least you’re honest about it. Gotta respect that.
stolichnaya is hitting them out of the park:
“mind-controller”
“anti-American instructor”
“terrorist sensei” - my personal favorite
“anarchist puppetmaster”
They all sound about as credible as “political mentor.” So stick with that one, if you must. Just as long as we know where you’re coming from (which we do).
Okay, pretty please, with sugar on top, will you tell us what you think it means?
You honestly cannot seriously describe Obama’s relationship with former domestic terrorist Bill Ayers?