Yes, something like that was said. French, British, communists, especially Jews.
But I don’t think I am being too kind to Germans here. WWI and aftermath was for Germany pretty much worst kick on nuts I can imagine to any proud, established nation. Such rhetorics that were heard and cheered would have been laughed at in some other times.
This is actually an interesting question. I’m happy to expand on this subject, but first let’s get a realistic view of the history,
SD is not a very new phenomenon anymore, they have been around in their current shape since 1995. They grew out of the white supremacist movement and in 1995 there was an internal power struggle that resulted in a shift in agenda where they decided to become more mainstream and try to get some real political influence. This is their second term in parliament and before that they have had local politicians elected in municipalities so they are not that new anymore.
The last election less than a year ago they got about 13% which makes them the third largest party. The general trend still seems to be upwards but their supporters are also cherry picking and putting faith in some very low-credibility polls. This is not specific to SD, every political party does this, but to an objective observer it’s obvious that the support they think they have is somewhat inflated. The serious polls have them hovering around the election result or slightly above. They are definitely the most successful party over the last two election cycles, first getting into the parliament in 2010 and then more than doubling their result in 2014.
The reason for this upsurge is threefold.
There is a strong culture of political correctness around the question of immigration in Sweden. Anyone who criticizes immigration needs to be careful not to be labelled as a xenophobe or racist. This is a classic case of excluding the middle, and the other parties strategy to ”shame” people with xenophobic tendencies has backfired. SD is the only party that is openly critical towards immigration so if this is an important issue for you, you really have no other options. I suspect that the amount of xenophobes is actually higher than 13% and that if people were to vote only on this issue SD would probably double their numbers. Fortunately for those parties who are not SD, this issue is not the most important to most people.
SD also appeals very much to the ”good old days” crowd with their idea of Sweden as having been a nostalgic utopia. They also pay a lot of lip service to seniors.
SD is very much viewed as anti-establishment and as a ”fuck the system”-party, meaning they also sponge up voters who are just generally pissed off at the system and want to voice their dissent.
Nowadays they also have a somewhat eloquent and (to some) charismatic leader in Jimmy Åkesson. He’s worked very hard at coming across as professional and competent, and has been pretty successful at it. I listened to his yearly speech in Almedalen this year and I was impressed. Admittedly I had low expectations but I thought he came across well and did a good job.
Regarding the rivalry between M and S you are actually not right. It is true that they made a deal to not form a Government that would depend on the support of SD, but that was the full extent of it, and that deal only lasted a couple of months after the actual election. It’s true that no other party in the parliament will co-operate with them however, but that is due to political incompatibility and the horrible reputation of SD. Basically you don’t want to touch SD politically because you might get Nazi cooties. SD is of course the big winner in this strategy because it cements their image as an outsider.
The political landscape divides into four at the moment, from left to right: On the very left you have the socialist party (V)which not part of the government but is expected to vote in support of it. Then it’s the center-left coalition (S+MP), and the opposition which is the right wing coalition (M+FP+C+KD) and SD. Technically (V) is part of the opposition, but in reality they don’t have any choice but to vote for the Governments proposals since the only option would be to vote for the right wing after their own proposals fall through.
So yes SD is doing great for a small and pretty new party, their strategy has been very successful in getting votes and they now have plenty of professional politicians and a working organization. But no they are nowhere near being able to get any real influence since they are for all intents and purposes considered pariah among all the other parties. They like to play the victim role a lot about the fact that ”nobody wants to talk to them” but from my perspective that is horribly immature. If people don’t want to make deals with you because they think your policies stink and don’t agree with your values, in a democracy that is YOUR problem. As a political party it is up to you to build trust and learn how to negotiate, if you want to have any real effect.
But the short version is basically what you already said: "Pretty much only thing on their agenda is reducing immigration, right? Why so many people decides to support them?”
Yes. That is basically it. They are the ONLY real anti-immigration party, so if not liking immigration is the most important thing politically for you, they are your only choice. Most people have no idea about any other part of their policy, other than maybe something like ”they seem to like seniors”.
If the other political parties wise up and stop excluding the middle w/r/t immigration, I’m fairly sure that SD’s numbers would plummet. Basically I think that if the Prime Minister were to go on TV today and say ”We think we need to cut immigration and reform our system of integration because it is not working”, half of the support of SD would disappear in the next poll. If the main parties don’t adjust their policy towards reduced immigration I think SD is positioned to grow a bit more in the next election.
Yeah. Right.
In other news, “Neger” has been an offensive word for black people for donkey’s years.
Let’s just say it is like have a chocolate dessert in the US that some people insist on calling “niggerballs”. Would you be cool with that?
Oh and by the way, the Swedish word for the colour “black” is “svart”.
Next up, the SDMB tackles “niggardly”.
Just as a cultural nitpick, I would say that the swedish ‘neger’ is nowhere near as offensive as the American ‘nigger’. A lot of older people (like my mother) use the word without any derogatory meaning because it simply used to be the correct word but over time became regarded as offensive and obsolete. The cultural setting is also extremely different because Sweden has until recently never had any significant amount of africans.
I actually just talked to my mother about it to confirm, the first time she saw a black person was about 65 years ago and she remembers how people looked at him dumbfounded, because most people had never seen a black person before. It took her 20 more years before she saw a second one. We also don’t have a history of slavery, which I think is the main difference. The way I understand it the word “nigger” is heavily connected to the usage of slaves, which is what makes it so insulting, because it is basically saying that you are not a person, you’re property. We don’t really have a swedish equivalent for that word, but I think “svartskalle” (literally “black head”) is closer since it is unequivocally a derogatory term (which I of course use all the time when talking to my immigrant friends, because I’m totally gangster like that:dubious:). Svartskalle however applies to anyone who is not white, not just neg… err… black people.
Personally I don’t use the “never” word much, unless I am joking with a black friend or (as just now) talking to my mother. But the “negerboll” issue has been a sensitive one for years with good arguments on both sides. I’m a bit surprised that it was removed from the dictionary without a national vote, considering it has been discussed since I was a kid.
And yes, this is what a nation gets up to when it doesn’t have any “real” problems to fix… Too much time on our hands.
Probably the same as Russian “негр” - which is the regular word for a black person.
The Holte End in Birmingham has been a no-go area for the boys in blue for a long time.
http://www.derwesten.de/politik/in-problemvierteln-fuerchtet-sich-sogar-die-polizei-id4926287.html
Interviewer: “Are there urban areas – for example in the Ruhr – districts and housing blocks that are “no-go areas,” meaning that they can no longer be secured by the police?”
Chief Police Commissioner Bernhard Witthaut: “Every police commissioner and interior minister will deny it. But of course we know where we can go with the police car and where, even initially, only with the personnel carrier. The reason is that our colleagues can no longer feel safe there in twos, and have to fear becoming the victim of a crime themselves. We know that these areas exist. Even worse: in these areas crimes no longer result in charges. They are left ‘to themselves.’ Only in the worst cases do we in the police learn anything about it. The power of the state is completely out of the picture.”
Perhaps it is the company I keep, but I don’t know anyone that would comfortably use it. Ok, maybe it is not as strong as ‘nigger’, but I would certainly put it in the area of the likes of ‘chink’. Similarly, my 70-something Dad can’t get to grips with how he can’t call the Chinese takeaway ‘The Chinky’.
Perhaps I am too polite or too much of a bleeding heart leftie, but I’ve always of the opinion that language changes and if groups do find it offensive then don’t use it. With that in mind no, I don’t think both sides have good arguments.
Immigration does bring changes and, occasionally, disruption. People are often threatened by such changes and seek to limit them. That is not surprising.
meh
If the SD gets near 50%, there might be an issue. In the U.S., the Tea Party made great strides hijacking the Republican party, but after the dust settled, they still topped out at around 18%. Stuff happens.
You want to view this as “everyone” in Sweden being upset at immigration. I have used the following analogy, previously, and it still applies. The largest audience radio station in Cleveland plays Country Western music. Based on your logic, “everyone” in Cleveland is a fan of C-W. However, the reality is that there are so many Rock and Roll and pop music stations in Cleveland, that the C-W audience is one of the smallest in the area. Since there is only a single station playing C-W, its numbers swamp the numbers for each individual station–each of which takes a portion of the non-C-W audience, but the C-W audience is swamped by the multiple audiences for the other genres. Your charts show the same thing: the SD looks impressive in a mixed field, but since it is the only party pushing that agenda, it is actually swamped by the number of people who are not interested in promoting xenophobia.
Unless there are large parts of the population that think that word is offensive and shouldn’t be used then it isn’t anything like ‘neger’.
I have to say, it is weird trying to discuss the severity of an offensive term in Swedish with someone who appears to have no knowledge of the language and appears to have only found out about the word today.
Well the etymology of “негр” in Russian is the same as the German “neger” and probably the same as the Dutch word’s. So is the meaning. Neither Sweden nor Russia had black slavery, so the word doesn’t carry the same baggage as it does in American English. So its “offensiveness” is just carried over from the US English. Big whoop.
Well I come from a working class background and grew up in a neighborhood that was predominantly immigrant, so I am very used to hearing these things and I’m very sensitive to the context. Also, everybody who knows me knows I have a load of immigrant friends, that I’m active in the Assyrian and Somalian community and that I’ve done a lot of volunteer work and political work to help immigrants and refugees. What’s the point of all that cred if I can’t spend it using racial slurs for comedy value? If someone wants to try and stick a racist label on me they are welcome to try. 
But when I said it’s been discussed I was talking about the ‘negerboll’ not the word ‘neger’. The word ‘neger’ should never be used outside very specific contexts, but the word ‘negerboll’ was/is the name of a very common pastry. What I have found in discussing it is that only sensitive progressive white people found it offensive. Absolutely zero of the immigrants that I have ever talked to about it has found it offensive. It’s nice of the sensitive people to care, but the real problem that black people worry about is not being able to get a job because they are black and have non-swedish names. That is something 100% of all black people I have ever talked to have expressed deep concern, sadness and worry about.
From my perspective there is a tendency to “sila mygg och svälja kameler*” when it comes to these issues.
Offensive terms for ethnic minorities don’t just come from slavery. Like the Svartskalle that was mention before and Blatte, to add another word that you had never heard of until this discussion, they have various different histories away from slavery but are nevertheless offensive.
Get this though, this is crazy and apparently will blow your mind as you seem rather unaware of how languages work. Lots of words have come into Swedish from English and have retained their meaning.
I’d say that the difference is that ‘svartskalle’ and ‘blatte’ both started out as insults with a derogatory meaning, whereas ‘neger’ actually used to be for blacks the same as ‘caucasian’ would be for whites but has become loaded with negativity over the years. I mean Astrid Lindgren used the word in her children books when I was young.
Let’s say my experience is different, I have met several black people that find it offensive, including (for example) an old next door neighbour from Cape Verde.
For the record, I live in a previously very unfashionable suburb of Stockholm. It was looked down upon precisely because of the large amount of immigrants and it is only in recent years that, due to the housing shortage in Stockholm, that more white people have moved in. Which has also had the effect of tripling the value of my flat in the twelve years I’ve lived in it
Are you talking about the word ‘neger’ or ‘negerboll’? Neger I agree, with, negerboll I would be very surprised.
In fact I just sent a message on FB to the local chairman of the Somalia organization here to see what he thinks. Let’s get to the bottom of this!
Three words:
‘Ten Little Niggers’.
I grew up in a UK that thought it was normal to have ‘the black and white minstrel show’ on TV and I used the ‘nigger’ variant of ‘eerie meanie…’ until I knew better. Lots of offensive words started off innocent. A few years ago I watched a British documentary about the ‘black power salute’ at the Olympic Games. They showed footage from the time and the presenter referred to them as ‘negros’. That is no longer acceptable even though it used to be the accepted word for black people.
Basically, ‘neger’ starting out non-offensive is simply not in any way unusual. Hell, ‘Gropecunt Lane’ used to be a common street name in the UK.
Well to be honest I got sidetracked by our local expert in Swedish 
But I have discussed ‘negerboll’ with non-white people, including the ex neighbour (who I guess I could email if it really would add to the conversation) and ask what her opinion is.
Yar. I don’t think we disagree at all on the neger-issue, used to be harmless, is now offensive. It’s really the negerboll-issue we need to get to the bottom of.
Also, I am now considering if somehow we can orchestrate a reverse move of the word ‘babbe’. This started out as a derogatory insult, I know, but it just sounds so cute. I really wish I could use it because it sounds so endearing. I think it should mean “Someone you like who is from a culture that is exotic to you” or something. It’s a really cute word onomatopoetically.