I see that so far no one has responded to these questions -
I too would be extremely interested to hear from American posters as to how our school standards compare, as I’ve heard on more than one occasion from people who have studied in both countries, that our year 12 is comparable to 2nd year college in the US. I was wondering if these opinions were accurate?
I looked at the linked PDFs, and it seems as if these tests are asking for essays based on specific materials read. There is no way at all that this could be asked of students throughout the U.S., since the curriculum will vary tremendously from one school district to the next. Here in New Jersey alone there are literally hundreds of local school districts, and each one will have a different set of books to be read.
That said, the material you referenced in the Standard test looks to me like what would be expected of college-bound people here, assuming they had previously been assigned to read the prescribed material. Some of it could be expected of non-college prep students, again assuming they had actually read the prescribed items. To me, it more resembles the type of test that an individual teacher might develop for his/her specific class for a term, based on previously assigned and discussed material.
The SAT tests definitely do NOT test specific materials such as this. Instead, they may provide an excerpt for the student to read and then answer questions about. Other sections will be vocabulary, grammar or spelling.
Comparing the tests you referenced to things like the SATs is apples and oranges.
Part of the issue involved is how the test results are scored. Are the tests you referenced scored on the basis of both content and style? How much credit is for paragraph and sentence structure vs. accuracy of recollection of the material? Is there an objective standard for scoring, or is it up the the subjective opinion of the scorer?
It is hard to say because even our college curriculums vary a lot. There are some excellent high schools in the U.S. and a ton of pretty crappy ones. Colleges run the whole spectrum all the way up to the best in the world. I would never believe that any high school graduate in the UK or Australia could hang with an incoming junior from MIT, or CalTech or dozens of other difficult and extremely selective schools.
High school in the U.S. means extremely little in the general conscience. Sure, graduating from high school is preferable to not graduating but “high school graduate” is pretty much an on/off switch and ranks very low on the scale. The main purpose for going to a good high school in the U.S. is to go to a good college. If students don’t go on to college then that effort is generally seen as wasted. High schools in the U.S. aren’t really seen quality liberal arts educational centers for the entire population. Rather, they set some up to go on to college and try to kill time with the rest hoping to instill functional literacy anjd misc. knowledge that varies by district.
You aren’t going to impress most people in the U.S. with the rigor of your high school education unless it is mentioned as part of a full academic career that includes a college degree (preferably four year. two year schools don’t get much respect either).
I take some exception to the previous post. It depends what you’re looking for.
In terms of pure academics, I’d agree with much of what was said. However, to say that just HS, or a technical school, or a 2-year associate’s degree is not worth respecting, well, that depends.
College and University education is not appropriate for everyone. In some cases it’s a complete waste of time for a craftsman, a tradesman, or a retail worker. I know bartenders and sous chefs who make as much or more than many college graduates, and are very happy and successful. We had a friend years ago who was a plumber, had a high school equivalency diploma (never actually finished high school) and who made more money than my husband and I (both college grads) combined. Had a lovely family, too.
I didn’t say what should be, I said the way it is for the most part. Of course other professions are admirable and many require more specialized knowledge than college degrees. It is a problem in the practical sense because many kids are funneled off to college when they would be better off learning a skilled trade.
I think what I disagreed with most was this:
Instilling functional literacy (and numeracy) is more like the minimal and most basic function of the U.S. education system, including high school. On top of that there is the college prep function, for those with such aspirations. I don’t think it is generally seen as “wasted” if students don’t go on to college. How good a job is being done is, of course, a separate issue and depends on so many factors it’s hard to know where to place either the blame of the praise.
I’ve heard that in some other countries the aim is different.
I don’t think we are really disagreeing. I am referring to the mentality of most Americans. College is an essential part of the “American Dream” and not going to college is seen as a personal failure if the student is capable of it in any way. Because of this,many high school guidance counselors push almost everyone to go to college. Students often go just because that is the default. High schools like high college attendance numbers and such statistics can also influence things like real-estate values in the town (very seriously. Boston magazine runs a couple of analyses of this type of thing on all Boston suburbs every year). Waiting or going to trade school would be a much better option for many students.
I often hear subtle criticisms of people that didn’t go to college even if they are successful in their field (even intellectual ones like journalism). True story. I got a contract IT job earlier this year. My supervisor was a little older than me and we hit it off. One day, I casually asked “So, where did you go to college?”. She said “I…didn’t GO to college”. The tension was so thick that I could have cut it with a knife. I am never asking that question to a coworker again. This despite her successful career in IT management. My FIL is a self-made multi-millionaire and the fact that he didn’t go to college comes up all the time. Sometimes, it is flattering and other times, it is a critical jab.
Okay, I’ll agree with you in part again. The attitude depends on who you talk to and where. I’ve encountered some dam smart, and technologically creative individuals in data processing and technology fields who did not have a college degree. But they tended to hide it. One in particular always spoke with great enthusiasm about his college days and the fact that he was in the same fraternity with another of our co-workers. I found out recently that although he wasn’t lying, he also never graduated. Lacked the discipline, etc. to do so.
One of the things, IMHO, that a college degree demonstrates is the ability to persevere at something for four years even when you don’t like all of it.
OTOH, I once taught school in a school system where most of the families were quite well off, but few parents had even attended college. Sure, they would have *liked * their kids to go, but if they didn’t it was no big deal since they could always go into daddy’s business. (No, it wasn’t waste management, just lots of folks who owned various retail and other businesses.) The kids could have virtually anything they wanted – one parent sent his son and several friends to Hawaii for mid-winter break, for example. It was very difficult to work up any enthusiasm for higher education, culture and all that. After all, I had a college education, and I was still making easily less than half of what their parents brought in.