The flag should be removed.
Gee, johnny. So all those folks in what used to be the Confederacy are supposed to stop displaying that just on your say-so?
Monty wrote:
Not only that, but it’s my understanding that Georgia didn’t incorporate the Confederate Battle Flag into its state flag until after World War II.
*Monty: Nor surprising since the flags are “little red Xs.”
The first posting didn’t work because I used the expression {file}…{/file} instead of {img}…{/img}. The second posting of the files actually did work.*
Actually, it was the second post I was referring to. Looking at the HTML code generated for your post, I saw<code>
<P>Alabama
<IMG SRC=“c:/alabama_small.bmp”>
<P>Florida
<IMG SRC=“c:/florida_small.bmp”>
<P>Mississippi
<IMG SRC=“c:/mississi_small.bmp”>
<P>Georgia
<IMG SRC=“c:/georgia_small.bmp”>
</code>
This worked for you because these pictures are on your C: drive. In order for us to see them, they have to be on a publicly accessible server. (The data for the pictures isn’t uploaded as a part of the message. Only the address is, which is then expanded when someone reads your post.) You only used the local path on your computer.
E.g., you could use <code>
<IMG SRC=“http://www.straightdope.com/ubb/smile.gif”>
</code>
on other message boards that allow HTML, and the smiley " :)" would appear. The data for this would be loaded from the SDMB server at the time that anyone read your message.
E.g., <code>
<img border=0 src=“http://www.whitehouse.gov/WH/images/flag.gif” height=40 width=217 hspace=5 vspace=5></code>
will load this picture from the White House’s web page:
<img border=0 src=“http://www.whitehouse.gov/WH/images/flag.gif” height=40 width=217 hspace=5 vspace=5>
Sorry for the hijack. Now returning you to your debate.
Next thing you know, they’ll be telling us we have to get rid of our hoods–or at least quit wearing them in public. Sheesh!
To use someone’s logic, a lot of people find the Stars & Stripes offensive, are we to stop flying it too?
To me this is just about political influence/power. The NAACP is just meddling in someone else’s business to try try to bring some media attention to their cause. Just as Jesse Jackson does to keep his name in the media. Does anyone know the ratio of black NAACP memebers vs. the total black population? I would venture a guess and say that it is a wide gap.
Now before you think that I am a bigot or a racist or that I am evil, let me tell you that I spent yesterday shoveling 20" of snow from my neighbor’s driveway and they just happened to be black.
Now to the original post - WHO GIVES A DAMN?! Let those in SC do what the hell they damn well please! If you want to make a difference, move to SC, pay taxes, register to vote and vote those politicians out whom you find offensive!
Just as I don’t care about the Mormans in UT, the Nazis in IL, nor Hillary running for the Senate in NY, etc., etc. as long as they are not infringing on my rights to pursue, life, liberty & happiness nor breaking any of the established laws of land, I don’t care and neither should anyone else outside of SC.
All of this reminds me of a Bloom County cartoon in which many different characters say:
“Ya know penguin types offnd me.’ ‘Hey…I’ll tell what offends me… dirty words.’ ‘Polish jokes offend me.’ ‘Stereotypes offend me.’ ‘TV sex offends me!’ ‘Look! That sign is offensive!’ ‘I made that sign & I offended!’ ‘Frankly sir, you offend me.’ ‘Well! I’m offended at your offense.’ ‘THOSE NUDES OFFEND MY WOMANHOOD!!’ ‘THOSE GAYS OFFEND MY MANHOOD!!’ ‘This comic offends my offensiveness!’ ‘MY GOD… LIFE IS OFFENSIVE!!’ ‘AAAIGGH!!’” Then Opus says, “offensensitivity”
Get over it. The other, greater concerns you should put your efforts behind.
(In answer to my own question - 1:7 - based on 1999 population estimates.)
“Quoth the Raven, ‘Nevermore.’”
E A Poe
ConMan:
I agree with you about going back to the OP…take a look at it again, and you’ll see I DO live in South Carolina. I am registered to vote and I do pay taxes, so I guess I have a right to care, now?
As you reread the original post, you’ll also see that it didn’t ask, “Should we have the flag up or shouldn’t we?” It was originally posted in the general questions section because the question was actually, “Weren’t the Confederates traitorous to the U.S.? Since SC is IN the U.S., why is the flag of a traitorous group flying above the SC statehouse?” [this is not a direct quote, I’m paraphrasing]
I didn’t start this thread in order to debate whether the flag should come down/stay up based on racial vs. Southern heritage issues. To me, it should come down because it represents a group that fought against the U.S. government; therefore, it shouldn’t fly above a building representing any level of the government that rules the U.S. That seems logical.
Obviously, this thread took a few different turns in the process of discussing the different sides of the issue. I think all the comments have been interesting and have definitely helped me think about this issue from different sides. It IS worth discussing and thinking about because it effects a lot of people in my state.
If you are not interested in discussing the topic because you find it is a waste of time, then don’t discuss it! There are a lot of other topics on this board.
By the way, I am concerned about what goes on in other states…I may move there, the people creating problems in other states may move HERE, it may become a national problem, etc. Besides, although the U.S. is made up of 50 states, it’s still one country.
One more thing, just to clarify…
I said that I’m concerned about people in other states who are creating problems. This was in response to ConMan’s Mormons in UT, Nazis et al comment. I was replying to his implication and not his specific examples. Of the groups mentioned, the only one I consider a problem is the Nazis.
I don’t hold any particular allegiance to the Confederate flag due the gun-rack-in-a-pickup-truck-driving, Redman-chewing, overall-wearing, toothless grinning, Hee Haw watching, Dukes of Hazzard- good-ol’-boy image it conveys to all of those who live outside of the deep south. An enduring image that will not go away thanks to Hollywood. And yet on my last two vacations - to Washington (state) & to Maine - I saw the very same people that are constantly mocked “back home”.
Should a state government fly the Stars & Bars? Why not? It is a just state government. The flag just represents a piece of history. As General Zod said in Superman II, “a sentimental replica of a civilization long since vanished.” If you look at all of the state flags and state seals, you will see some image/reflection of that particular state’s history. If the Stars & Bars were flying over the Capitol Building in DC, then I see cause for the uproar.
Again, I just think the NAACP is looking to bring attention to their cause. Look at their creedo: “The NAACP is committed to non-violence and relies upon the press, the petition, the ballot and the courts, even in the face of overt and violent racial hostility.”
Notice the word “press” in there. And if NAACP is not just picking their fights, then why aren’t they calling for the redesign those state flags that incorporate the S&B in their flags and calling for a boycott of those same states? AL? AR? FL? GA? MS? Also, what is the NAACP going to do about those businesses that are black-oned & operated? Will they provide financial support when those businesses go bankrupt during this boycott?
Also, shouldn’t we, as Americans, then be offended by Hawaii’s flag? It includes the Union Jack. No, we are not. Why? Because we won! The Union won, too. So, if SC wants to fly its flag to soothe its hurt feelings, then let it.
Personally, I think the NAACP should take the high ground and be above the fray. Work the ballot box, it certainly worked for my city government in the 1998 elections. A group calling itself, “Get Out the Vote” went door-to-door in the black neighborhoods and hauled them to the polling stations. All of the blacks who ran, won. Sour grapes? Not at all. Nice plan: transport your neighbor, sit with their kids, whatever to allow them time to vote but if you are going to vote for one official over another just because of their skin color, then you should not be allowed to vote.
“Quoth the Raven, ‘Nevermore.’”
E A Poe
I have a compromise solution to the problem, but so far I haven’t been able to swing a lot of people over to my side:
The problem is that there is a very vocal minority of people who want it down.
There is also a very vocal minority of people who want it to remain. It obviously means a lot to those people.
So, why don’t we raise another flag in addition to the Navy Jack–one that would appeal to Blacks.
My idea for a design: a flag showing a couple of Black guys strangling a redneck with a Confederate Flag!
I think that should please all parties.
(BTW, the great majority of SC’ers don’t give a hoot about the flag, one way or the other.)
Minor point: The Confederate Naval Jack can be seen at http://fotw.digibel.be/flags/us-csan.html . There are also links from that page to the other flags of the Confederacy.
The distinction between the Naval Jack and the Battle Flag is that the former was rectangular and the latter square.
first i should clarify that i am nuetral as far as the civil war goes, my family came here after the war and i was born and raised in California, so i have no ties to either side. also, i think that if one is going to call the south evil, or traitorous, one should look at the north as well. neither side was innocent. for instance, somewhere in the constitution it says that if you dont like the government, you are allowed to make your own. problem is, they didnt think that the whole south would want to secede! also, if you want to go off on the whole slavery thing, you might want to look north as well as south. yeah, thats right, the north had slaves, granted, not as many as the south, but they did have slaves nonetheless. and did you know that the emancipation proclamation only freed the south’s slaves, not the north’s? hmm… wasnt there a quote that once said that to the victor goes the spoils? i guess that means writing the history books too.
Navyb: I think you’re confusing the Declaration of Independence with the Constitution.
The Declaration of Independence (“When in the course of human…”) established (at least documentarily) our independence. The Constitution ("…In order to form a more perfect union…") established the current government. Two different things.
P.S. And for the love of humanity, use those shift keys and some more punctuation!