What's wrong with the ID4 Computer Virus Thing?

Cafe Society
1

Oh I’m just asking for it here. :stuck_out_tongue:

Last time I saw this movie was several years ago, so I may just not be remembering very well. But I get the impression that a lot of people think there’s something fundamentally stupid about the idea that a computer virus could be written that could infect computers aboard alien ships. (And apparently it is also supposed to make it worse that the virus is transmitted from a Mac to the alien ship–there is supposed to be some mystery as to how its possible for the two to interface.)

Do I have this right? Is this supposed to be a fundamentally stupid idea?

Because it doesn’t seem fundamentally stupid to me. It’s plausible to think that aliens would come up with digital technology. And given that, it seems like the rest naturally follows. I can imagine superduper alien computers impervious to any and all possible viruses, but there’s nothing necessary about that. If they’re using digital computers, its very plausible that a virus (I guess it was actually a trojan) could be written that could infect it.

Or not? I’ve said all this knowing pretty much zilch about the nitty gritty as to how trojans work, or even how computers work. So maybe it’s just my ignorance speaking here. If that’s the case, what makes it implausible to think that we could figure out how to write a trojan for any computing system we might encounter? Perhaps some might just be too complicated for us to think about, but what evidence is there in ID4 that the computers they use are too complicated for us to think about?

And about the Mac interface. The alien computer accepts signals somehow. Why can’t we allow that we could design a card or something, and write a decryption program or something, that works to allow the mac to send and recieve signals that can be used by that alien computer? We don’t have to assume the alien ship uses USB or something. All we need is some piece of hardware combined with the right software that takes Mac signals from one end and translates them to Alien signals from the other, and vice versa. Is this fundamentally different than designing something that allows Mac’s to interface with PC’s? (Don’t they have those?) Yes, I know it’s very different, but is it fundamentally different somehow?

Or is it just the speed with which the trojan was designed that is bothering people? Did they have since the '50s to design it? Or did they only start thinking about this approach once they got the ship to power up around the time Will Smith showed up? (Or am I remembering this detail all wrong?)

Well. Have at me. :wink:

-FrL-

2

PC and Mac software don’t even work interchangeably. There’s no reason to think the characters would have the first clue how to write a program for an OS they’ve never heard of or seen, and that’s assuming it’s a binary operating system to begin with.

3

Yikes…

Eh, best I can do to support the “its not bullshit” party is a vague memory from the movie… Something about all our current technology being derived from the crashed spaceship in Roswell, which was of course a scout ship for the aliens, fifty years ago.

So, if all our technology is based on theirs, then the two could probably interface.

Actually, nah, its bullshit. And I think I’m thinking about Transformers.

4

[QUOTE=Frylock]
The alien computer accepts signals somehow. Why can’t we allow that we could design a card or something, and write a decryption program or something,…
[/QUOTE]
You’re barely scratching the surface of what would be needed to understand an alien computer system well enough to exploit a security error it might have. Assuming it is even remotely like what we already have:

What is the physical form needed to interface with it; cables, connections, voltages, transfer rates,..?

What protocol does it use to transfer data; packet sizes, routing, metadata,..?

What access does that grant to its internal workings; processes, access rights,..?

What instruction set does it use?

What is the internal architecture?

What role does this system play in the operation of the alien spaceships?

And probably more. I mean, do we know for sure that an alien computer would even be binary?

And how do you test any of those things? You don’t know what the controls and inputs do; you can’t understand the output. As you manipulate this black box, how do you know if your testing is producing any result at all?

And once you have all that, then you can start looking for some security flaw that may exist to allow you to make the computer do something the aliens don’t want it to do. Oh, but forget finding it by trial-and-error; you only have one chance to interface and get the virus to work.

Not gonna happen.

5

Not to mention linux. Computer operating systems can be designed in so many different ways that it’s unlikely in the extreme that software that runs on one will run on another without a concerted effort to make a separate version that runs on the different platform. To have it work on a random, alien system is as unlikely as alien-human hybrids being born.

Different operating systems are like different languages. A book written in English is not going to be readable by someone who knows only Chinese. And that’s a pretty good analogy, since it’s also unlikely that the aliens used roman letters.

6

[QUOTE=Robot Arm]
You’re barely scratching the surface of what would be needed to understand an alien computer system well enough to exploit a security error it might have. Assuming it is even remotely like what we already have:

What is the physical form needed to interface with it; cables, connections, voltages, transfer rates,..?

What protocol does it use to transfer data; packet sizes, routing, metadata,..?

What access does that grant to its internal workings; processes, access rights,..?

What instruction set does it use?

What is the internal architecture?

What role does this system play in the operation of the alien spaceships?

And probably more. I mean, do we know for sure that an alien computer would even be binary?

And how do you test any of those things? You don’t know what the controls and inputs do; you can’t understand the output. As you manipulate this black box, how do you know if your testing is producing any result at all?

And once you have all that, then you can start looking for some security flaw that may exist to allow you to make the computer do something the aliens don’t want it to do. Oh, but forget finding it by trial-and-error; you only have one chance to interface and get the virus to work.

Not gonna happen.
[/QUOTE]

I know there are all those questions to answer, but I don’t see why they’re fundamentally unanswerable. For example, maybe the system is trinary but there’s nothing to stop a binary computer from interfacing with a trinary one, with the right hardware. It’s basically just a matter of translation, AFAICT.

Maybe like I said in the OP the problem is that people find it implausible that it could be developed so quickly. Is that it?

-FrL-

7

[QUOTE=Frylock]
. . . The alien computer accepts signals somehow. . . .
[/QUOTE]

This is like saying that, since *you *accept signals somehow, it’s plausible to “derive” English from knowing that simple fact.

8

[QUOTE=lissener]
This is like saying that, since *you *accept signals somehow, it’s plausible to “derive” English from knowing that simple fact.
[/QUOTE]

:confused: It’s like no such thing. I don’t take it that the Mac just “figured out” the alien system right there on the spot. I take it that vast amounts of research on the alien hardware and work on its software went into whateve hardware and software were put into that Mac before the trip.

-FrL-

9

[QUOTE=Frylock]
:confused: It’s like no such thing. I don’t take it that the Mac just “figured out” the alien system right there on the spot. I take it that vast amounts of research on the alien hardware and work on its software went into whateve hardware and software were put into that Mac before the trip.
[/QUOTE]
That might be okay if the Brent Spiner character, who’d been working on the scoutship for years, had written the virus. Didn’t the Jeff Goldblume character write it in less than three days?

Maybe I’m wrong - does the movie say who wrote the virus?

10

The virus was written by Jeff Goldblum in like, an hour.

11

[QUOTE=Frylock]
:confused: It’s like no such thing. I don’t take it that the Mac just “figured out” the alien system right there on the spot. I take it that vast amounts of research on the alien hardware and work on its software went into whateve hardware and software were put into that Mac before the trip.

-FrL-
[/QUOTE]

Vast amount of research has been put into understanding Linear B cruciform, and yet no one has ever been able to understand the language. And this is a language invented by other human beings. Understanding the language of a completely alien species is an order of magnitude more difficult, and that’s in comparison to a task that’s impossible to do in the first place.

Also, the Brent Spiner character specifically says that they’ve never been able to make any headway with the alien tech until the invasion started. Which means that, despite having the crashed scout for fifty years, they’re still starting from scratch when Goldblum starts writing his supercode.

12

It’s as implausible as Martians never having ever been exposed to bacteria of any kind.

13

[QUOTE=Miller]
Vast amount of research has been put into understanding Linear B cruciform, and yet no one has ever been able to understand the language. And this is a language invented by other human beings. Understanding the language of a completely alien species is an order of magnitude more difficult, and that’s in comparison to a task that’s impossible to do in the first place.

Also, the Brent Spiner character specifically says that they’ve never been able to make any headway with the alien tech until the invasion started. Which means that, despite having the crashed scout for fifty years, they’re still starting from scratch when Goldblum starts writing his supercode.
[/QUOTE]

There is a simple answer. Goldblum too was an alien. Not merely an extraterrestrial, but from another universe entirely. The DC Universe, specifally. He was from Colu and was linked to the Speed Force.

14

[QUOTE=bubastis]
The virus was written by Jeff Goldblum in like, an hour.
[/QUOTE]

Oh, well, then, that’s different.

Never mind.

-FrL-

:stuck_out_tongue:

15

The plot get-out in Independence Day is, I suppose, that because they’d had the equipment for so long and had been doing so much work to understand it, all Jeff Goldblum was doing was the final tweaking to make it all come together. Or something. (Don’t blame me.)

16

[QUOTE=Skald the Rhymer]
There is a simple answer. Goldblum too was an alien. Not merely an extraterrestrial, but from another universe entirely. The DC Universe, specifally. He was from Colu and was linked to the Speed Force.
[/QUOTE]

I always assumed he was a herald of Galactus.

17

[QUOTE=garygnu]
It’s as implausible as Martians never having ever been exposed to bacteria of any kind.
[/QUOTE]

Um, dude, Native Americans? Smallpox? etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc.?

It’s actually one of the least implausible movie deus ex machinas I can think of.

18

[QUOTE=Miller]
Vast amount of research has been put into understanding Linear B cruciform, and yet no one has ever been able to understand the language. And this is a language invented by other human beings. Understanding the language of a completely alien species is an order of magnitude more difficult, and that’s in comparison to a task that’s impossible to do in the first place…
[/QUOTE]

Maybe the computer on the alien ship had some kind of Earth language translation program of it’s own. The captured alien was able to comunicate by manipulating Data’s vocal cords as well project it’s thoughts into the President’s mind.

19

[QUOTE=Skald the Rhymer]
There is a simple answer. Goldblum too was an alien. Not merely an extraterrestrial, but from another universe entirely. The DC Universe, specifally. He was from Colu and was linked to the Speed Force.
[/QUOTE]

Close so close, yet so far.
Goldblum is from earth, just your common everyday TV repairman. It’s the Mac computer that is alien. Uses the same computer language that the bad guys do. What more proof do you need that Mac computers are not from this world? All the proof you need is right there in the movie.[/tongue in cheek]

20

[QUOTE=Robot Arm]
What is the physical form needed to interface with it; cables, connections, voltages, transfer rates,..?
[/QUOTE]

Are you and I the only people here that wrestled with serial cables about 20 years ago? :stuck_out_tongue:

Is it 9-pin or 25-pin?
How many data bits?
How many stop bits?
Is the parity even, odd or none?
Are DTE and DCE reversed?
etc…

And that’s with two devices that were invented on the same planet by the same species.

And don’t get me started on the multitude of ways dial-up modems could be mis-configured…