Wheel of Time 12 - The Gathering Storm (spoilers)

Cafe Society
1

Well, the first posthumous volume is out, finished by Brandon Sanderson, and…

…I loved it. Stuff is happening, things are drawing to a close, plot lines are completing.

Highlights:
-Verin’s revelation and death
-Rand taking out Graendal. Sure it was anticlimactic in a sense, but I so enjoy it when people actually have clever plans that take advantage of the rules of their universe. Similarly, Egwene’s public use of the oath rod.
-Egwene’s storyline continued to be generally top notch. Her war against Elaida was very well done
About the only note that didn’t ring true for me was the little scene with Mat having come up with four pages of backstory for each of his guys before sneaking into the town. A funny idea, but taken way way too far, imho.
What does everyone else think?

2

Agree with you on almost all counts. I loved Verin and Egwene’s scenes, especially their one together. I thought the Aes Sedai conflict was brought to a legitimate and interesting conclusion. Rand’s…temper tantrums did make sense and I liked the ultimate conclusion. In fact, the Rand story line in this book is the only real justification for the massive emo drama that’s been building with him for the last several.

I also rather dreaded the mat chapters; they seemed to take away from the main plot. Also, that whole village bit…why? Drives home the spread of the bubbles of evil, but serves little other purpose. I wonder if that was a Jordan holdover, it seems his story. Perrin’s appearances were mercifully brief, and i liked that the dragging Shaido storyline seems to be over.

Perhaps this series really will end soon! stuff is happening again!

3

I pretty much agree. Egwene was a rock star in this volume, and I loved her plot line. I’m conflicted about Verin showing up in the White Tower. One the one hand, it was a little too convenient how she delivered the name of just about every Black Ajah member in one fell swoop. On the other hand, the bit with the tea was pretty cool, and she’s always been a little zany, so maybe it works.

Really felt for Rand in this volume, more so than just about any other time in the series (with the possible exception of being boxed prior to Dumai’s Wells). It must suck being an Insane Savior Destroyer.

Gawyn seems like a relic from about six books ago. If RJ thought it was so important to have a blast from the past, I’d much prefer to have seen Padan Fain (he’s still alive, right?).

I love Graendal getting nuked, largely because I thought that was how Rand should have been dealing with the Forsaken he’d pinpointed for a while now… but also because it was nice to see her subtle, layer-upon-layer scheming getting vaporized. The next Forsaken meeting is going to be awfully dull. Still, Demandred is alive and kicking, and he’s always been the awesomest Forsaken, so that’s good. Hopefully we’ll get to see him one of these days! Does the smart money say he’s in the Black Tower or with the Borderlanders? I’m going with the latter, but he could be with the Sea Folk for all we really know.

I think Mat was the only character we saw that Sanderson didn’t really treat well. He seemed a little too jokey, like he expected to be followed around with a laugh track. And maybe Cadsuane pfaw’d once or twice too often, but other than that, I think he did a fine job as a non-anonymous ghost writer.

The next one’s going to be out this time next year… right?

4

Although of course they didn’t catch anywhere near all of them, which kept it from being too much of a freebie.

Yeah, but that’s 6 books in which only one book’s worth of action actually occurred… :slight_smile:

Although I feel like there’s a bit of bad-ass-ness inflation going on. Gawyn is so good that he can easily and confidently defeat two other warders, one of whom is one of the very best warders. And of course Mat beat Gawyn AND Galad at the same time with a quaterstaff while sick…

5

Wow, I was totally obsessed with this series when I was in high school (FFS, I’m 31 now) but stopped reading it ages ago due to… I can’t even finish that sentence. You know why. But now I’m kind of tempted to check it out.

6

If you’re going to do so, skip straight to book 11 (Knife of Dreams, the last one Jordan wrote himself). You can find synopses of books 6 through 10 online, don’t waste your time trying to read them.

7

I read it last night. So.

Yes, things have started happening, and this is good. The problem is that, roughly speaking, the two books covered about a year, the next four covered about the same time (maybe a bit less) but books 7 to 12 inclusive have covered less than half a year between them.

Personally I think books 6 and 9 are worth reading, for the major plot points at the end (the battle of Dumai’s Wells and the cleansing of saidin respectively). The rest - well they have things happen in there somewhere.

On to this book.

Rand.[spoiler]progress with his madness at last. He’s been offscreen for too long, but growing decidedly unpleasant as his mind went downhill. It’ll be interesting to see how he handles himself post-reintegration.

Possibly the most interesting aspect will be to see how he handles the temptation to channel the True Power now he no longer has the competing lure of the Choedan Kal. That might just have been the stroke of genius that turned Rand to the Dark One, if he had not dealt with his madness.[/spoiler]

Egwene.Hallelujah, the Aes Sedai schism is resolved. But resolved well, with one small exception. I groaned when…it was revealed that the Seanchan had captured Elaida.I suppose I should have seen that coming, but it was late when I finished.

The Aes Sedai.[spoiler]Several minor puzzles have been solved. The mystery of the sitters, and why Elaida. Also the Black Ajah’s oath (they had to have taken oaths on the Oath Rod to preserve the Ageless Look of Aes Sedai).

However, why would someone as undoubtedly intelligent as Verin have betrayed the Lord of the Grave, then killed herself? She must know that that dumps her straight into the (vengeful) hands of the One she has just betrayed. Sheer stupidity. She should have asked Egwene to Balefire her. But nooo…

Still it sets up her return.[/spoiler]

One last Aes Sedai question.Just who is Mesaana? My current favourite, for some reason, is the Head of the Grey Ajah. Something she said at the council of the Five Ajah Heads sparked my suspicion. Since that group seem to have been at the heart of the problems, and since the Grey Ajah are the mediators and negotiators, it’s where I would put her. In which case, she knows how to defeat the Oath Rod. More than likely she never took the Oaths in the first place, since that would dramatically shorten her lifespan.

Gawyn : That he was an exceptional swordsman was established at the overthrow of Siuan Sanche in Book 4. He led the band that outfought experienced Warders. So no, I have no real complaints about his treatment in this book. Except turning him into a bullyboy.

Person I felt most sorry for : Min. Being used as an instrument of torture probably inflicted several psychological wounds.

Thing I most wanted to see but didn’t : Progress in the freeing of Moiraine. I guess that will happen in Towers of Midnight.

8

What mystery is that?

One random question: A few random hints as I was reading very quickly made me think that Rand had actually killed Min, but then balefiring Semirhage brought her back. Not sure it really matters one way or the other…

9

It’s probably one of those things that a lot of people skip because the first part (about 200 to 250 pages) of Crossroads of Twilight is so unnecessary.

Siuan Sanche spotted an odd pattern in the Sitters (in both factions, iirc). At least one of the Sitters in each faction simply didn’t have the requisite experience for being a Sitter. Remember, we’d learned that Aes Sedai typically live over 100 years, and the only reason they don’t routinely live over 300 is the Oath Rod. So how is it that at least one of every Ajah’s sitters is a mere slip of a girl, generally between 50 and 100? It’s hidden owing to the fact that discussing an Aes Sedai’s age is bad manners.

Of course the glaring oddity is that Siuan herself is far too young to be Amyrin; just 20 years wearing the shawl (she was Accepted at the time of the Aiel War, as we know from the New Spring novel) at the time of her overthrow.

You know, that makes a lot of sense from one angle?The big flaw is that it wasn’t Semirhage that killed Min (if she actually died); it was Rand. That he was obeying her commands might not make any difference. I’ll have to read that again and see what I think.

I’ll also have to do a Forsaken count. I can’t remember how many are still functioning.

10

Just for clarity’s sake:
The Ajah heads back at the White Tower sent young Sitters to join the rebels. You find out during the private meeting where they discuss electing a replacement for Elaida.

I’d love to see a forsaken count, I’ve lost track. Are any of the fan sites updated yet?

11

Ok, a reread of the scene with Semirhage shows that, when Rand smashed the Domination Band, Min was still breathing. He released her, and she choked.

Also, it was quite definitely Semirhage’s action in forcing Rand to torture and kill Min that pushed Rand to abandon his pledge never to kill women. That or his contact with the True Power.

That incident could have so many repercussions. It was a brilliant gambit - sacrificing Semirhage to tie a string to the Dragon.

Thanks. I knew the scene. I’d misremembered the puzzle.

Off the top of my head, and spoilered for those yet to read The Gathering Storm.[spoiler].

Active
Moridin (the Nae’Blis) aka Ishamael
Demandred (whereabouts unknown)
Mesaana ( The White Tower)
Cyndane aka Lanfear - Mindtrapped by Moridin
Moghedien - Mindtrapped by Moridin
Halima aka Aran’gar aka Balthamel - whereabouts now unknown

Balefired
Be’Lal
Rahvin
Semirhage
Graendal

Not returning
Asmodean (whether because his killer Balefired him - quite likely - or because the Dark One will not restore a betrayer is unclear, at least to me).
Sammael (Died in Shadar Logoth. Mashadar is inimical to the Dark One.)

Unknown : Aginor
Aginor (aka Osan’gar aka Corlan Dashiva) was last seen at the Cleansing of Saidin, where he was killed by Elza, but not by balefire. So eh could have been recycled.[/spoiler]

12

I just read the summary online (being too lazy to actually read the thing; besides books take forever to get over here) and I have to say the revelation about Verin made me gasp out loud. Whoooooooooa. Maybe I’ll read it after all.

13

La la la not looking, not finished yet, just wanted to bookmark the thread, I’ll be back tomorrow.

:smiley:

14

That particular scene is really well done, too - it might be my favorite of the book. Except there are a lot of good scenes. Once you get past the first 250 pages or so (which really has the feeling of ‘getting things in motion’, it’s bang-bang-bang from about then on.

If you were a super hardcore Jordan WoT fan you may find some holes: there are a few spots where the style is somewhat different (usually for the better IMO but very much a matter of preference), the pacing is different than anything we’ve seen in at least five books (almost unarguably for the better), and I’m not sure the Mat scenes in particular hit the perfect note. Honestly I think Sanderson could have just kept everyone but Rand and Egwene out of this book if it wouldn’t have gotten him crucified by the fan base. There are definite strengths, though: a lot of stuff happens, there are at least half a dozen very poignant and well done scenes, and both of the main storylines feel very much like the ‘right’ characters. Big thumbs up from me.

15

I totally have to agree with your first 2 point (style and pacing).
More “STORY” was told in this book then in the last 3 put together. Rarely was there a scene that was an “almost repeat” (ie. Perrin and his band hunting the Shaido, the Wise Ones telling him to kill Massema, Matt and his group making camp, the circus moving and stopping at a town), unlike the last 3 books.
The style comment, I loved…nary a “sniff” or a “snort” or a full page disscourse on how someone “was a head taller” then someone else. I am guessing since she is not editor to her husband, she can actually do the work (I have editor friends who want to go throught the last 6 books with red pens). Plus, something must be said for the last 2 chapters…some of the best and most poignant writing in the WHOLE WoT.
Now for my one argument. As it is, Sanderson is on the cross already with the fan base. Not a scene of Lan, Loial, nor Elayne(not to mention Morgase, Alivia, Cyndane, and Moghedien) I understand how hard it is to put all the major characters in each book, especially when they are so spread out. But the rabid fans will all complain and we all know how loud they will be. Posts here are already picking apart the Perrin and Matt scenes, especially the lack of meat to them.
But once again for the most part I agree, it was the right choice of 2 main storylines, and setting us up for “Tower of Midnight” next year

16

There were some new chapter Icons in this book, the most interesting one was the “spider webs”. I am curious if anyone has scoured those chapters to see if Moghiedien might be in them in disguise. I point this out because in TSR the chapter where we first meet the peddlers (Lanfear and Asmodean in disguise) the chapter icon is the cresent moon with the 5 stars. This is he same icon used for Lanfear in all the previous books (I think it is also the signet Lanfear uses as Selene in TGH). Any thoughts??

17

I just read it at Wikipedia and I am not surprised at all. She out and out lied once. There was obviously something go on there.

18

Did she? It’s been so long since I’ve read the books that I barely remember who she is. (Exaggeration, but only just.)

I’ll read the latest book when I can get my hands on it over here, I suppose. In the meantime I might flip through some of the earlier books.

19

not read the thread cos I don’t wanna be spoiled, just popping in to say, up to page 200 ish and it’s freaking fantastic. More plot movement in these 200 pages than in the last 2 or 3 books. I was very disappointed to have to leave for work this morning. I just wanted to keep on reading.

There is a style difference, but I don’t think it’s going to cause me any problems.

20

As far as the style difference, after the prologue and 1st chapter I didnt seem to notice anymore.

The pace of this book was great and personally, I was insanely happy that Elayne was no where to be seen, the political drama of Camelyn was annoying by the end of book 11, so I had no desire to hear anything more about it, as far as I am concerned Elayne can stay hidden until she squeezes out her pups and heads to Tarmon Gaidon.

Mildly disappointed that Perrin didnt finally get to do something other than watch/fight the Shaido, he really has done nothing else for 2 books now, and I wholeheartedly agree that the few sections on Mat seemed a little overdone, however I look forward to some more in depth story line on him(really wanted the Tower of Ghenji to happen in this book)

Lastly, really looking forward to Rand becoming “human” again. The scene with Tam had my hopes up and then Heavily dropped by the conclusion of the scene(same with Hurin)

All in all, I was pleased with the book and cannot believe it will be another year for the next one