No, you don’t gotta ride that horse. I’m trying to be helpful: if you think maybe you fucked up, it’s okay to admit it and change what you’re saying.
For example: when you said it’d be easier if she weren’t so attractive, maybe you’d agree that it’d be easier if you didn’t find her attractive? Tiny change that changes the locus of responsibility.
For example: when you said it’d be easier if she got hired to be a supermodel, maybe you’d agree that it’d be easier if you got hired to be a professional bassist in an all-male hair band? Tiny change that changes the locus of responsibility.
Yeah, and the really fat new fat person already know they’re really fat, and the black new person knows they’re black, and the obviously gay new guy know he’s gay. Are they also worth a comment or conversation with your work buddies?
What is the fucking point of stating the obvious? In service of what? To see if everyone else has noticed the blindingly obvious so you can all share a good knowing nudge and wink, say no more, know what I mean?!
You’re off to a great start then.
Consider the possibility that making comments about her looks gives those other men license to behave the way they do. So do you think you’re comments are “helping” or hurting.
I didn’t further elaborate on this post because I didn’t know where it would end up going. I mention this because many years ago, I had a co-worker who looked like a male model, and neither he nor the women who considered themselves his groupies seemed to care that he was married with a young child.
We’re talking about things like spiriting at least one of them off to a weekend in Vegas, and wondering why his wife met him at the airport with divorce papers, which she had filed after the missing persons report because he hadn’t told her that he was going anywhere. :smack:
Another female colleague, who is 20 years older than us, was a close friend of mine for a while, and one reason she isn’t any more is because she couldn’t stop talking about what an Adonis he was, and how bitter she was that men like him weren’t interested in women like her. Oh, yeah, like someone who has self-respect is going to want a pot-smoking (and not casually), cocaine-snorting batterer who is probably bisexual (yep, heard that from a friend of mine who worked with his ex-wife), no matter what he looks like.
ETA: AFAIK, he never physically abused his ex-wife. However, Ms. Weekend in Vegas regularly came to work with heavy makeup and long sleeves in the summer. She said she fell down, etc. but we all knew otherwise.
I do remember one time a woman who was hired was so beautiful, it simply was noteworthy. And it did kind of drive me crazy that I couldn’t remark on it. Don’t get me wrong, I don’t think I’m being robbed of self expression and I know/feel it would jerky of me to talk about it. But a part if me was screaming “Are you seeing what I’m seeing?!?”.
Sorry I havent been able to respond to my own thread. Been very busy.
I work in the maintenance field and women are few and those that are, tend to be top notch.
But in my area sometimes we work VERY closely. Not next cubicle over close. I’m talking about working on a machine where you are literally lying on top of each other or have hands intertwined. Yes, it can be difficult even if a guy is doing his hardest to cool his jets. Many times we avoid getting too close or maybe take an extra break to avoid a difficult situation.
Out on our workroom floor its different and the females outnumber males about 4 to 1. A good looking guy is VERY popular and the word quickly gets around of which men are available. Women have this network thing down.
Speaking of which, a few years ago I was working part time at this big dining hall and my coworkers were mostly female and hispanic. Well anyways on break all the women were together and chatting away (in spanish) and I noticed a few were looking at me and talking away which made me curious and I asked one of the guys what they were saying and he said “you dont want to know”. I told him to tell them “Married for 14 years with 2 kids” and I saw some dissapointed looks.
So that brings up a question, is it wrong for women to be on the lookout for possible husband material?
What kinds of machines are you fixing that require this kind of physical proximity?
Maybe they were taking odds you were gay?
No. It would be wrong if they were to harass men in these efforts.
The problem with the above is that you seem to draw false equivalences as a way of justifying or excusing problematic male behaviour patterns. Objectively, women don’t have special rights to harass men any more than men do. Realistically, women acting inappropriately towards men is a far far smaller problem in society. Anecdotally, having experienced this in the past, I’ve never once felt threatened by such attention. …Did you?
My comments are neither helping nor hurting. And I am not giving anyone license to behave unprofessionally - I don’t allow people to be treated unprofessionally by me or any of my colleagues (or managers, to the extent I can prevent it).
You should try that - respect is better and more effective than a chip on your shoulder.
I assume the overwhelming majority are well meaning professionals and do not do so. At least in my extensive workplace experience to date. Hence the standing discussion about the need to comment on perceived hotness.
I can honestly say that throughout my professional life, I have never heard anyone make comments about a colleague’s physical appearance. Nor have I seen attractive colleagues treated differently. As a woman, I can only speak for women-only or mixed-sex groups. It’s possible that the men I’ve worked with have discussed the attractiveness of colleagues when no women were present, but it’s equally possible that it does not happen.
I have spent my career in academia, specifically in a field that is fairly balanced in terms of male/female representation. My last two department chairs were both women. Perhaps the university culture helps create an atmosphere of mutual respect, and the balance of men and women supports that, as does the tone set by the administration.
Again, I don’t get this. Disrespect and homophobia are much worse than general positive compliments on someone’s appearance. Why do so many of you guys think verbal and psychological abuse are acceptable behavior but saying ‘so and so is pretty’ is over the line?
If I were at a store and some employees were verbally or psychologically abusive I’d report them to management.
If I were at a store and some employees made positive and respectful remarks about my appearance, I’d be flattered and move on with life.
When I was a UPS field rep back in the early 2000s, one of the managers in my region had a team composed almost entirely of hot, blonde, 20 something women. By the time I had been there six months, almost had become entirely. As each new hottie took her place, my usual thought was that this guy was a lawsuit waiting to happen. (He was also a blatant sexual harasser.)
Since you’re back, I have a serious question for you (not a “gotcha!”) - how would you feel if someone asked you to change your thread title from, “When a beautiful woman starts at work… what have you seen?” to, “When an attractive person starts at work… what have you seen?” I know you can’t change it at this point, but is it something you would consider for the future? Do you see the difference that change would make?
My comment was meant to point out the arrogance of the poster who said he had no idea what was being said about him but he assumed it must have been something related to the women’s attraction to him. i.o.w., It was a joke.
You’re a dude, right? If so, how often does that happen to you? Does it come at a regular and intrusive frequency? Is it always discreet and under appropriate circumstances? Is it ALWAYS done in a respectful way?
Now, put yourself in the shoes of a very attractive woman just trying to get through the average day. I can’t. I’m a dude, like you. But I have heard stories from women I’ve dated, my wife, random media, personal first hand observations. So I can imagine. I bet you can too if you try.
Look, I’m not trying to come across as the paragon of virtue. It’s not like I don’t notice. I just think that commenting on a woman’s appearance in a professional setting (per OP) is not appropriate. In a casual or social setting, the rules can obviously be relaxed.
Yes, to be honest, I thought of making this more gender neutral but then I thought saying “beautiful woman” would be more fun. And since this quickly went to 3 pages of comments it seems to have worked. Plus people have tossed in the subject of men themselves which I figured would happen and it did.
You know, part of the problem today is we are so darn afraid of being open and honest so we feel we need to make everything all gender neutral and non threatening. Especially early on when people were attacking me for even daring to think people would notice and react to a beautiful woman.
Yes, you should not go crazy over someone or be weird but I think in our society people who are good looking know it and learn to deal with it.