When a Cigar is Just a Cigar: Quit Making Characters Gay Just Because You Want Them To Be.

But you can’t deny the freaky-deaky between Legolamb and Gimlet. The Ho-Yay is strong between these two!

OK, since we’re talking about the Marvel movies, how about this one? After The Avengers and Captain America: The Winter Soldier, it was widely assumed that Black Widow and Hawkeye were in a romantic relationship. But in Age of Ultron, it was clearly established that, no, Hawkeye was happily married to another woman, and Black Widow was just a very close friend to him (and to his wife and kids). Did it annoy you that people were assuming a relationship between those two? If not, why not?

Ian McKellan a gay actor played a wizard that if you think about it had no sex drive at all. After all Gandalf is effectively an angel.

I strongly suspect his wicket was never sticky.

Why would he have a wicket if it couldn’t get sticky? Think about it. :cool:

Cigars are just plain nasty!

Only if they’re sticky. Or not!

At the time I saw the scene I did not think “gay lovers”; I thought a person who she deeply cared about and who was killed by Hela saving her. Long established military movie trope of watching best buddy killed saving your life. If I thought more about the scene it was along the lines that it did not quite bring home the emotional impact of reliving the loss on the character from trying to suppress the feeling of the loss to directing it at Hela and re-establishing herself as a Valkyrie, not a scrapper. The transition of her character, its growth, needed something more after the reliving the memory. Some greater hardness. Resolve rather than resignation. The delivery of the line that said something like “I’m going to die: it may as well be trying to bury my sword in her heart.” did not hit the mark to sell the character. One of the few critiques I had of the movie; I thought it great and loads of fun overall.

And reading about how others saw that scene and concluded “gay lovers” (independent of any awareness of canon, backstory, or deleted scenes) I thought, dang me, you be dense. Yeah, once pointed out it is pretty obviously the intent.

For the purpose of the movie plot though it was the “watching person deeply cared about die killed by villain saving her life” that mattered … not whether that cared about included a sexual component. IMHO.

for some reason most ancient/mythical female warriors/groups end up being considered lesbian/bi at some point so people probably just thought it was a non main plot reveal…

Just for shit and giggles, Loki is, in the Edda, bisexual, since he turned into a mare, got knocked up by the stallion Svadilfari, and gave birth to Odin’s horse Sleipnir. But don’t get your gay all over my nice straight comic book movies because that’s just making up dirty stuff.

Do you also expect members of all-male police forces or military to be more likely to be gay or bi?

It made me roll my eyes that the people I saw making that assumption happen to be from a culture which assumes it’s not possible for a man and a woman to be friends. But what makes me roll my eyes is the second bit.

Just one note - this one movie doesn’t take place in isolation - there was another recent superhero movie featuring a group of all-female warriors where one is killed saving a protagonist and immediately mourned by another who is clearly depicted as her partner in the film … for a change, DC did it first.

Deleted scene

In the absence of evidence, I do think it’s not equally valid to assume the character is gay because the vast majority of the population is not gay. Lacking evidence, it’s reasonable to assume a character is straight for the same reason that it makes sense to assume that character is right-handed.

I don’t see why any assumptions need to be made at all.

That particular question is somewhat complicated by the fact that, in the comic books, Hawkeye and Black Widow were romantically involved for a time. So some of that speculation may have just been folks bringing their comic book knowledge to the films.

To the larger point, though, I agree that there shouldn’t be anything particularly “annoying” about the suggestion that a character of unidentified sexuality might be gay or bi. Particularly a character whose ultimate origin is in Norse mythology, which plays all sorts of games with sexual ambiguity–one of most popular myths about Thor has he and Loki disguising themselves (convicingly) as the goddess Freya and her handmaiden, in order to recover the stolen Mjölnir.

Well, I’m talking in terms of Tropes, not real life. And yes, members of all female warrior groups have had a strong tendency towards being gay or bi in fiction; both in Science Fiction and Fantasy. Though I acknowledge that as usual I did not express myself that well or clearly.

I mean we’re talking about a comic book movie, Tropes seem to be appropriate to the discussion.

What annoys me is when people insist that character A and character B must be boinking, because they’re very close to each other. Platonic love and deep friendship is not a thing for these people, apparently. It only counts if you’re rubbing genitals.

The fan interpretation of these relationships is usually slash, because if a male and female character are very close and not related, the author will almost always pair them in canon, or make it a love triangle. No matter whether it makes sense or not, or if there’s any point in a romantic subplot, boy plus girl equals loooove.

I mean, talk about LGBTQAetc representation. What are asexuals supposed to think, when any love that doesn’t involve sexual attraction is pretty much dismissed or denied?

/rant over

Psst! ** Men can be bisexual, too! **Just because they’ve usually been portrayed as dating women does not mean that they aren’t also interested in men!

I understand there’s a gay porn that conclusively answers that question. Were one to google for it. (not at work, obvs.)

What - no mention of Dumbledore?

As for Gobber, given that he’s missing several body parts I assumed the “other thing” had more to do with something else being missing but if he was supposed to be gay, well, eh. Don’t care. Good for him.