Inspired by a BBQ Pit thread about police tazing a fellow who refused to get out of the car on a routine traffic stop.
I realize they can ask me to get out of my car any time during a stop, but at what point am I legally obliged to obey? No, I’m not looking to get into machismo contests with the police, so I don’t need an answer fast, and you’re not my lawyer. I’m just curious.
If they have cause to stop me for a traffic violation, does that automatically confer on them the authority to make me get out of the car? What about passengers who, presumably, have not violated any laws?
Yes. Technically, the officer witnessing any traffic violation, no matter how minor (and whether or not the violation was real or just something the officer thought he saw) means that when he pulls you over you are technically under arrest. The officer seeing the traffic violation is probable cause for this arrest. Pretty sure he can cuff you if he feels like it.
Searching your car is another story. If you don’t consent to the search, merely being stopped for a traffic violation is not probable cause to search the car. With that said, they can pretty much search it at will.
An officer can order you and your passengers out of the vehicle and yes, legally you have to comply. Depending on the state the passengers may or may not have to ID themselves.
Except for the fact that they don’t have probable cause to search your car for every traffic violation, this is just about all wrong.
Traffic stops have their own rules of procedure. They aren’t arrests. pkbites is correct that you have to get out of the vehicle if ordered, including if you’re a passenger. This doesn’t mean you’re all under arrest and it doesn’t mean you can all be searched.
You’re legally obliged to obey immediately (given a reasonable time frame).
No it isn’t. Whether it actually happens depends on the state and agency policy, but I most certainly can take you into custody for a traffic violation. In fact, if you don’t hold a license from a state that borders Wisconsin (for some reason Indiana is included but I don’t know why) you will be taken into custody and made to post bond. In other states people are routinely taken into custody for minor traffic violations.
I’m inclined to think that any time an officer has probable cause to confront you, which would include inspecting your driving permits, he also has a right to take any steps he deems necessary for his own protection, which can mean being able to see you in full, and even search you for hidden weapons. Hence, even if you’re not in a car, the Terry Search is legal, and enjoys that special status of otherwise unconstitutional imposition in order to allow the police officer to assure himself that you are not armed. The Terry Search is limited to frisking for weapons, and would obviously be permitted in a traffic stop, which requires being ordered to step out of the car, as well as all passengers.
No ID documents are required by anyone but the driver, but the officer can ask all persons to state their name and address at any time, but cannot detain them unreasonably beyond that.
In NJ the officer can have the driver step out for no reason at all. There must a be a reasonable suspicion that the passengers are, have or are about to commit a crime or that they are armed and present a threat in order to get them out.
I used that term because I meant drivers license, auto registration documents and valid insurance. The police can stop you for any reason related to the way you’re driving, and the first thing they do when they stop you is to request to see your drivers license.
I have been stopped by officers who expressed no other concern than that my driving appeared to be “erratic”, and they left me alone after determining that I did not appear to be intoxicated or otherwise impaired. But still asked for license.
The stop itself is not an arrest. But an arrest can be made even on minor traffic violations. The stop itself is a detainment, falling under a subset of Terry.
Remind me never to exceed the posted speed limit in Wisconsin!
Are you (the royal, plural you) required to take the speeder/failure to signal/failure to stop evil-doer from a far-off state into custody, or is there discretion given to the officer? It would seem to be quite a pain to be hauling in every Massachusetts driver who passes through your state (because we all speed…).
I don’t know how it goes in Wisconsin these days, but it used to be common in many states or municipalities for out-of-state drivers to have to either post bond on the spot (in the amount of the fine) or go to jail and wait for the judge. Obviously most people figured out some way to pay it. The cop would normally be fine with following you to the bank or wherever in the next town to pull some money out if you needed, but I’ve known some folks back in the day who had to sit in jail in some podunk town while a friend came with some cash to bail them out.
It’s less common these days because the inter-state license compacts are a lot more extensive and streamlined. If an out-of-state driver skips out on a ticket, it’s easy enough to call their home state and have their license suspended. I have heard that in some states where they still require the bonds, the cops actually carry portable credit card readers!
Wisconsin is not a member of the National Drivers Compact, which is why out of state drivers are usually made to post. Otherwise they split and don’t pay the fine. This can result in them up to their neck in shit. They may (or may not. Depends on the judge) have a warrant issued. Also, the state issues a Wisconsin DL on paper and suspends it. Next time that driver gets pinched in WI they get taken on the warrant and also charged for driving after suspension.
There indeed are cops here that are issued credit card readers and receipt books for cash/checks. But in reality there aren’t that many violators from states that don’t border Wisconsin. I don’t know why border state violators are given tickets instead of being made to post.
This provokes on off topic comment leading to an off-topic question:
Comment: In Michigan, the state troopers simply confiscate out-of-state drivers’ licenses giving them a receipt, so no bond is needed.
Question: I have a AAA bond guarantee card. If I am ticketed in Wisconsin, will you accept my bond guarantee, or will you still take me into custody?
Followup question: Do you always, 100% take people into custody to post bond, or is it a case-by-case basis? Now that tickets are able to go from state to state, it kind of seems punitive these days to make someone post a bond for 10 over.
Did you read my previous posts? It depends on the agency and their policies. Nobody is required to take the AAA get out of jail card and many agencies don’t.
Did you read my previous post? Wisconsin is not a member of the National Drivers compact. For those that aren’t (about 4 states if I recall) tickets do not go “state by state”. Sorry. Don’t be a dick when you’re on vacation and you’ll be fine. Just saying.