Do not need answers fast. I know there are a few lawful orders police can give at anytime that anyone has to follow like having to show identification. I’m also pretty sure the rules change once you are arrested. It is no secret that some LEOs exceed their authority and threaten law-abiding citizens so are these lawful orders? NB a few have followup questions.
Is it lawful to demand a person in the car at a traffic stop get out? Let’s assume they are stopped for 10 mph over the limit or rolling through a stop sign. There is nothing to indicate drug use, drinking, firearms, etc.
Same as above but the driver refused to consent to a search. Officer threatens to detain the driver and impound the car to get a search warrant. Driver still refuses consent. Lawful to make the driver get out?
Can the cop detain the driver and impound the car while waiting for a search warrant?
Does it make a difference if the search warrant is denied?
Driver has dashcam on recording a traffic stop. Cop demands they turn it off. Lawful order?
Person taking video of police in a public place. Cop demands phone and person puts the phone in their pocket. Cop demands the person turn over the phone or they will be arrested on obstruction or withholding evidence. Lawful order?
Can the cop seize the phone if it is in their pocket?
What happens if the cops arrests the person, seizes the phone as evidence, releases the person after a couple of hours and either a) refuses to return the phone or b) erased the video.
In the US at least, there is no general requirement for anyone to carry ID, and police can only compel you to provide ID (in some states) if they have reasonable suspicion that you have committed a crime.
ETA: I should point out that that applies to people who are just out walking around. Drivers OTOH are required to produce a valid license upon request.
Cops are just like any other profession: they come in good, bad, and indifferent. Blind obedience is not a virtue. It may be necessary, depending on circumstances, but it’s not a virtue.
This hard to do without a computer but I’ll give it a shot.
Pennsylvania v Mimms states that during a motor vehicle stop the driver can be ordered out of the vehicle.
Maryland v Wilson states the passengers can be ordered out.
A car can be impounded pending a search warrant. The driver can not be detained while applying for a search warrant unless there is already probable cause for an arrest.
If there is something that could be destroyed or altered like a phone in which there is a reasonable suspicion that it contains evidence of a crime it can be seized for safekeeping. The device can not legally be looked through without a warrant. Filming a police interaction is not a crime so simply filming that is not grounds to seize the property. Telling someone to stop filming is not a lawful order.
So when told by a cop to stop filming and you refuse, then what? At that point the cop may want to initiate a pretext with you just to stop you filming. So they trump up something and outright detain/arrest you, or somehow get you to make some alleged overt physical response so they can arrest you for that, just to get you to stop filming.
Like you are required to pull over while a police car passes you with it’s lights on, you can actually be ticketed if you don’t. You are also required to slow down and maintain a safe clearance for an officer in a marked car on the side of the road with his lights on. The order for both of these is implied, an officer doesn’t have to point at you to move.
He can also place orders at the drive through for coffee and donuts.
In addition to these, Atwater v. City of Lago Vista held that an officer can arrest someone for even a “minor traffic offense.” The specific offense in that case was not wearing a seatbelt. Under Texas law (where the case originated) it’s a misdemeanor punishable by a $25-50 fine, so I can see some grey area as to whether an officer can only arrest for a misdemeanor or whether an “infraction” is different.
But they can legally tell you to move away from the immediate area where they are detaining or arresting someone, and they can tell you to be quiet if you are yelling instructions or encouragement to the person being arrested. And you can be arrested if you refuse to do so.
Exactly how far you have to move away, or just how quiet you have to be are questions that will eventually be decided by a Judge, if you refuse and get arrested & charged for it.
But courts tend to give a lot of weight to the judgement of the officer who is experienced and was present at the scene. Based on the theory that generally you being too close might allow a dangerous criminal to assault the cops, or even to escape, which could cause harm to the general publid; while making you move too far back might degrade your photos, but is not likely to harm the public.
He could also shoot you, set you on fire and steal your puppy. This thread is about what police can order you to do legally not what individuals could do which are not legal of which the possibilities are not quite endless but are numerous.
True in more than one way. If you are close enough to be interrupting an arrest or investigation you can be ordered to get back and can be arrested if you don’t. Also true in that when people start to crowd an officer to film or yell the danger factor skyrockets. Not a good idea unless your motivation is to get arrested.
ETA: I should add that does not quite fall under what the thread is asking. If you are getting close enough to the action to interfere you could get arrested without warning for obstructing. Interfering with an arrest or investigation is a crime so it doesn’t quite fit the “not breaking the law” stipulation of the OP. Same with yelling out instructions to the arrestee. It could fall under obstruction or enciting a riot.
In some states they routinely arrest for traffic violations such as speeding over a certain amount. Here in NJ it is technically legal to arrest for a motor vehicle violation but it is nearly impossible to get approval. It has to be at least 15 years since I last saw it happen. Except for DWI of course.
Some police are assholes jut like a fair chunk of human beings are assholes. 99% of the time if they stop you in your car they want to give you your ticket or your warning or just verbally caution you about xyz and see you in your way. You are not special you are just one more driver. If someone wants to start being oppositional and defiant they are quite naturally wondering if something else is going on they need to investigate.
I have heard of annoyed (white, middle aged ) lawyers refusing a request to search their cars while being given a ticket and police dropped it, but I suspect it was because the office had a vibe of who they were dealing with.
In the end if they have to arrest physically they can justify it with pretty much any reason after the fact and they judge will take their word for it based on their perception of threat or suspicion of illegal activity. If they have to beat you the standard will be higher, and if they have to kill you higher still.
Here are some policemen being huge assholes to a mailmanbecause they were annoyed and they paid a price after the fact, but I suspect it is only because the US Post Office fell on them like God’s vengeance.
