When did America *stop* being "great?" (If you believe it to be the case)

A society is defined by borders, language and customs. One of the major things that has contributed to the decay of our society is that we are no longer a melting pot. The “salad bowl” has replaced it. Not to mention that we, for all practical purposes, no longer have a southern border, and we do not have an official language.

Personally, I would put it at some time between the end of the Korean War (1953) and the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution (1964).

The greatest things the USA ever did, in my opinion, were a three-fold process: 1) help the other Allies at a critical time to stop and reverse Axis advances and then to destroy Nazism and Japanese militarism (WW2), 2) subsequently institute a system of world order to protect the rights of smaller, weaker countries (U.N.), and 3) contribute vast material aid to the reconstruction of Western and Central Europe (Marshall Plan).

In the Korean War, the USA put its money where its mouth was by leading a U.N. coalition to resist North Korean/Chinese encroachment. It did not act alone. However, by the time the Gulf of Tonkin incident rolled around, now we have the precedent established (still in place) whereby an American president can, on his own initiate a war. It’s pretty much a straight line from there to Iraq, Guantanamo, and drone strikes, as I see it.

What you say is correct, however, there are even earlier precedents. Take for instance the ‘Banana wars’ of the early 20th century.

January 3, 1979. The day Newt Gingrich brought fear, hatred, bigotry and racism to the House of Representatives.

That’s a different history to what an awful lot of people remember.

  1. It didn’t so much “help” as got attacked and declared war on, then it finally ‘helped’ by doing more than selling weapons
  2. etc, etc

Hear, hear! To think that today we could all be wearing berets, carrying baguettes, and passionately discussing Existentialism in urban cafes! And drinking MUCH better wine.

So…what’s stopping you from doing any of those things, anyway? People pointing and laughing?


The defeat of Nazi Germany, which the U.S. had already decided months before Pearl Harbor would be its main priority, was accomplished largely by the Soviet Union. The Soviets did the vast majority of the killing and dying in this endeavor.

I never said that American ‘help’ was limited to only the supply of weapons to its allies.

To what is “2) etc, etc” referring?

The US didn’t contribute all that much to any of those processes. European countries did all the heavy lifting.

How exactly did European nations create the U.N. or fund the Marshall Plan? :confused:

The U.S. contributed a lot of matériel to the European war effort, including planes, ammunition, guns and more. One advantage this gave the allies was that the factories in the U.S. couldn’t be bombed or captured. This Wikipedia article estimates the that by 1944 the U.S. had produced two thirds of the Allied military equipment used in the war.

This doesn’t minimize the efforts and sacrifices of the other Allies, especially the Soviets. They did the huge majority of fighting and dying. That doesn’t mean the contributions of the U.S. weren’t significant. They wouldn’t have been able to defeat the Nazis without the tools to do it.

When the SJW group started defining everything in terms of social justice.

Tell us how the European nations did the bulk of the Pacific fighting against Japan.

To be fair, unless you include the Second Sino-Japanese War (which many in the West seem to forget about), the whole Pacific Theater was a minor side-show. The Japanese were never really a threat to become ‘World Hegemon’, unlike Adolf & Co.

Technically, it would have to be April 30, 1975. Or more specifically the fall of Saigon, marking the end of our involvement in Vietnam. That would be the first time in recent history that the United States lost a war and the effects were felt through the remainder of the 70s, into the 80s.

Now interestingly, we had some great moments since then. The fall of the Berlin Wall, the collapse of the Soviet Union, the first Gulf War. But I kind of feel like those events were also a transition to the current geopolitical environment. A fragmented world where the US was a slowly receding superpower.

When did the USA cease being great? When those bums abandoned all their loyal fans at Ebbets Field and moved to Los Angeles.


America was gonna be great again, until the gentleman i was supporting accepted that purple heart…
I’m a Trump supporter, but him accepting that doesn’t sit well with me.

Casually trampling over the NATO mutual defense treaty wasn’t exactly the sort of thing that great powers do.

Article 5, emphasis added: [INDENT][INDENT]The Parties agree that an armed attack against one or more of them in Europe or North America shall be considered an attack against them all and consequently they agree that, if such an armed attack occurs, each of them, in exercise of the right of individual or collective self-defence recognized by Article 51 of the Charter of the United Nations, will assist the Party or Parties so attacked by taking forthwith, individually and in concert with the other Parties, such action as it deems necessary, including the use of armed force, to restore and maintain the security of the North Atlantic area. [/INDENT][/INDENT] Article 5 has been invoked exactly once. After 9/11/2001. Never forget.

Um, maybe I’m just not following what you posted, but i don’t see how this involves Trump accepting that medal…
I am drunk though