IMHO, although America’s reputation has taken a severe battering due to Trump and also the coronavirus, it wouldn’t take too long for America to find its way back into the good graces of the rest of the world once Trump leaves. Obama was nominated for a Nobel Prize extremely soon after becoming president, indicating that it was awarded as a sign of how desperately the world wanted someone other than Bush. So when Biden gets into office and a “return to normalcy” happens, I think most of the West will be quite willing to overlook Trump and put that aside as “past” for the time being. This all the more so given that China is becoming an increasingly belligerent and tyrannical nation of late, and a lot of countries, even if they disliked Trump, still want America to serve as a counterweight.
But on the other topic of greatness…ever since World War II, it has been steeped into the American consciousness that America is the greatest nation in the world and that’s just who we are - as another Doper put it, almost as if it’s a natural law such as the fact that the Moon is the Earth’s only natural satellite. Someday - Biden or no Biden - it will likely sink in that America’s “greatness” is indeed diminished and the USA is not the top dog any longer (if the pandemic hasn’t already done a number on that attitude.) When that day comes, there will be a painful, unnerving state of change in the American mindset - just like Chicago Bulls fans in 1999 realizing that their dynasty is well and truly over. It will be a very uncomfortable few years of mental change to process that fact. Any comments on that?
The rest of the world was, indeed, thrilled when Obama took his place at the helm, and America seemed back on track.
But then we followed it with Trump.
I really don’t agree that “it wouldn’t take too long.” I think we would once again have to demonstrate that we are capable of being a world leader. We got a head start after WWII when the war and postwar austerity had taken out most of the potential rivals. We have now firmly established that we are basically an immature nation, and I don’t think it will be easy to get back to where were were even five years ago. Biden will be an adequate leader, and America will once again be invited to the right parties, but I don’t think anyone will be looking to us for leadership for quite some time.
I believe it’ll take at least a generation to get our reputation back, even with our allies. I am picturing retiring diplomats, high-echelon military, and just plain negotiators telling their replacements, “Don’t trust any agreement you achieve with the US. They might really believe what they’re saying and be negotiating in good faith, but the next administration could cause everything to be thrown into the nearest dust bin.”
Yep. The American Electorate have shown themselves to be utter morons. Sorry to those of you who did not vote for Trump… but enough of you did to make the rest of the world realize that we can’t trust you to do the right thing. Heck, we can’t trust you to not stick birthday candles up your nose.
Leadership? The rest of the world has realized that the USA is a toddler with a gun.
[quote=“Velocity, post:1, topic:914389”]
When that day comes, there will be a painful, unnerving state of change in the American mindset. It will be a very uncomfortable few years of mental change to process that fact.
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England. Think of those poor Brits…
There are still people alive who clearly remember when their flag flew over half the globe,Then one day it didn’t. And today nobody cares,and nobody in England wants to return to those days of glory.
America will adapt,too.
When Churchill spoke so eloquently in rousing speeches which raised the spirits of his countrymen,he always spoke of the greatness of England and her Empire.Today we remember much of those speeches (“our finest hour” “never have so few done so much for so many” “we shall fight them on the beaches,”-etc.But nobody quotes the bits where Churchill mentioned the Empire.
The American empire is already fading,and the process will continue . Americans have completely forgotten the cold war. World War II has been reduced to just another half-hour episode of an action movie.
As an American, count me in as one who is of the opinion that we are no longer the greatest country in the world. We are still the most powerful, but we have lost the title of the greatest nation. IMHO this is based on our response to Covid-19 as well as the responses to the death of George Floyd by Trump supporters. While we likely were on our way down towards second place ever since Trump was elected, in my opinion we passed the threshold on March 11th of this year. I now believe there are several nations that are greater, including South Korea and New Zealand as the most prominent examples.
I am picturing retiring diplomats, high-echelon military, and just plain negotiators telling their replacements, “Don’t trust any agreement you achieve with the US. They might really believe what they’re saying and be negotiating in good faith, but the next administration could cause everything to be thrown into the nearest dust bin.”
One of the reasons for scepticism/caution about US plans and policies in the French political classes (left, right and centre) as well as the military/security establishment has been precisely that - at least since Suez in 1956, and I wouldn’t be surprised since 1920, when Wilson wasn’t able to get US involvement in the League of Nations and the tripartite defence pact with France and the UK through the Senate. (The British drew the opposite conclusion from Suez, that the US had to be kept onside at almost any cost: but I wouldn’t bank on that continuing once the wheels finally fall off our current government).
If we’re going by a qualitative standard and not quantitative, then you could say Iceland, Finland, and dozens of other nations are greater than America. But this isn’t a meaningful metric for certain “macro” international situations. If Russia launched a full-scale invasion of Western Europe, for instance, nobody is going to expect New Zealand to lift a finger. Sometimes it is still overall heft that matters.
That’s why I distinguished between most powerful and greatest. There’s no doubt in my mind that the US is the most powerful country in the world, by a significant margin. We could probably take on the second, third, and fourth most powerful at the same time and emerge victorious, absent nuclear weapons. But when it comes to the whole picture including how the government treats it’s citizens and how citizens treat each other, we have had a steep decline since Trump was elected.