This is why I’m not a punk; I only like punk music. That means I’m allowed to like Blink 182 and the Sex Pistols/Ramones/NoFX/Clash/etc.
The reason I gripe about t he preppie wannabes is because that’s exactly what they are.They have NO idea what being a real punk/goth means and so it’s highly unlikely they are ‘real’ punks/goths.I live and work in a very upper-upper to upper-middle class area where the real punks/goths would be stoned on sight,I’m sure,if any were to live/work/hang out here.
That and the fact that I am surrounded by sugar-coated preppy words on the ass of my shorts goodness makes me wanna hurl.
The contradiction makes my head hurt.
Aw, they’re so cute when they’re so young and angry.
Actually, I like the punk look. But I have to chuckle a little bit at the teenagers done up in flannel and safety pins and studs, who obviously think they’re oh-so edgy and rebellious, when the “look” has been popular for about 25 years now. Heh, I bet some of their parents dressed that way!
(No offense meant to anyone here. I think folks should go ahead and dress however they want.)
By the way, what’s a “real” punk/goth?
No lie! My eldest brother (age: 43) told me recently that he’s been restraining himself from yelling, “Get your own rebellious style!” at today’s youth.
I thought of commenting on how a preoccupation with death is more than a century old and the wearing of black has been popular since at least the Beat Generation, followed by a smooth segue into a fond reminisence of my first Bauhaus album and of going to concerts to see if cEvin Key would really electrocute himself… but then I remembered that I’m blonde and therefore just a wannabe.
And it all follows the sunspot cycle. The vapid music gets replaced by a reactionary, cycnical and angry line of music in a pattern that happens approximently every 11 years.
Bugglegum pop begat the “late 60’s” revolutionary music.
Late disco begat Punk
MTV-ization of music in the late 80’s begat Grunge.
It’s true I tell you! Examine the sunspot cycle!!! Watch the skies!!!
Seriously now, you are just trying to “whoosh” us here, aren’t you?
Heh heh heh. I remember the day back in high school when I suddenly realized that Johnny Rotten was the same age as my mother!
So you’re saying that you want them to wear the “words on the ass of my shorts” clothing? Why? Just so you can feel superior to them? You already think/know that yo are. What, really, is the point then of wanting them to wear prep clothing?
::sighs::
You know, in the long run, there aren’t that many things worth worrying about. I’ve found that what anyone else wears isn’t something I need to get my head in a tizzy about.
There’s only one thing more pretentious than wearing the whole punk get up, and that’s complaining about the people that do it.
Ferrous
Actually, I like the punk look. But I have to chuckle a little bit at the teenagers done up in flannel and safety pins and studs, who obviously think they’re oh-so edgy and rebellious, when the “look” has been popular for about 25 years now. Heh, I bet some of their parents dressed that way!
So a bunch of us were sitting around. People who used to dress in combat boots. Some have tatoos that reflect a younger era (hey, some have tatoos that reflect a couple years ago), some unusual peircings (although by now, most have been removed and allowed to grow closed). Almost everyone has worn their hair a completely unnatural color (elmer’s glue for mohawks, anyone?), or at very least dyed jet black. Black leather. Treachcoats. I only threw away the red flannel shirt I stole from my boyfriend when I was 16 a few years ago. Whiteface and a lot of eyeliner with red red lips. Sex and drugs (although not me on the drugs - I was always on prone to depression and figured recreational drugs and anti depressants weren’t going to mix well).
And we look at our children and wonder what they will come up with to shock us. We figure they are all going to become fundies.
Yeah, I was having a similar conversation with my mom a while back. She said that with all I’ve done, and how generally open-minded and liberal I am, it’s going to be tough for my son to find anything to rebel against.
I told her, “I’m sure he’ll think of something. He’ll probably become a Young Republican.” (That was extra funny because she used to be one.)
Ah, a familiar lament: “I want to be different…just like everyone else.”
It’s a “new” trend? Seriously? I’ve never seen someone dress goth in real life, not even in college, so maybe it’s a regional thing? Hell, I thought goth was a late 70’s-early 80’s thing anyway, and I’m just too young to remember it. There are some advantages of having no more than a handful of memories from the late 70’s…
So how are you not a goth wannabe? Seriously? The kids probably think you’re a lame uber-loser.
No offense, but if you started dressing this way 15 years ago, that puts you well into adulthood, and aren’t you a little OLD to be worrying about what kids are wearing? I was out of that phase when I was 19.
I see a distinct difference between punk and goth. I did the punk scene a little in the late 70s (still a hippie at heart!). The goth thing wasn’t edgy in my book. Just plain bored-looking and depressing. At least, that’s my take on it.
OK, I know it’s been asked a million times, but what is a real punk? I’ll tell you one thing a real punk probably wouldn’t do: come up with a big checklist test that would declare who is and isn’t punk. Punk is an attitude, right? Sorta fuck everything and everyone and I’d kick all your asses if I cared but I don’t you slime…
Goth came in at the tail end of the beginning of punk, then slipped away from that hardcore sound in to synthpop and such. In the early 90’s Industrial listening goths seemed to be everywhere, Marilyn Manson and Trent Reznor were huge. Now I think they listen to all of it, plus some folky stuff too. Aphex Twin, Type O Negative, Tool, Depeche Mode, and a million others all seem to have a place on the list, which is a particularly strange mix. Perfect for the crowd 
(oops I smiled. Do over!)
LC
I, too, thought that goth came, left, came, left and came back again. I thought it started when Robert Smith first put on makeup and Siouxsie Sioux wore fishnets (late 70’s?). We still have 2 full time goth clubs here, and they can be quite fun to hit once in a while. Everyday is halloween at a goth club!
I never quite got the real goth/real punk thing. I guess there are people who are more sincere about things, and others are posing, but what makes someone real?
It does seem to annoy people when something that they consider special becomes popular, but, whatchya gonna do?
A hearty second to that, RickJay! There is something deeply sad about basing one’s identity on clothing styles and music choices. Why would anyone want to be a goth, a punk, or a preppy, as if ons’ value derived from being part of a trend?? Why not be, (drum roll please) yourself? If listening to Tool and wearing black mascara makes you happy, then do it because YOU like it, not because you’re being “Goth.”
Cool does not come from copying others; cool is finding your own trend and creating your own, unique, individual style. And caring what other people think of your choices is the antithesis of cool.
The following was taken from Goth.net…the largest goth community on the Web.
This is probably the hardest question any goth could try and answer, one may as well ask ‘what is society?’ as it has so many facets it defies any definitive explanation.
Goth in its simplest form, is a subculture. A group of people who feel comfortable within each others company. There is no specific thing that defines what you need to do or be to fit into the goth scene (except of course the implied black clothing). People in the goth scene all have different musical tastes, follow different religions, have different occupations, hobbies, and fashion sense.
Why do people become goths?
Most goths become goths because they have been spurned by ‘normal’ society because the way they want to live their lives does not fit in with how most people are told to live theirs. Goths are free thinkers, people who do not accept the moral rules of society because they’re told ‘This is just how it is’ or ‘This is what God says!’. Rather goths tend to listen to what you have to say, and make up their own mind. This kind of free thinking and rejection of dogma earns only rejection in todays society.
However because of this rejection from ‘normal’ society, goths have banded together to associate with other free thinkers. This has a beneficial effect on both the individual and society as a whole. For the individual they have a sense of belonging, and friends they can associate with. For society it removes one more misfit filled with rage from society’s streets.
This of course is not the case for all goths. Many goths today are goths for a variety of other reasons. They like the music, or the clubs are better, they have goth friends and joined in with them, or they just like staying up late nights and goths are the only ones awake to talk to.
The gothic stereotype
Many stereotypes of goths exist these days. It seems everyone has their own way to define ‘what is goth’. From the stereotypes based on clothing to music right up to the stereotypes of all goths being satanists or part of some kind of cult. Categorically, all of these are false.
The goth scene is just as widely varied as society in general. There are many different professions represented in the scene, from highly skilled professionals like doctors and lawyers, to tradesman, to technically minded people to clerical workers. Many different musical tastes exist (and not all of them goth, there is a HUGE 80’s following in the goth scene for some reason). The fashion varies vastly from goth to goth from the traditional flowing victorian style garments to the buckled and studded style regalia (also called industrial style, which is often closely related with goths, and have come to an understanding of co-existance, if uneasily at times).
How do I get into goth?
This is the simplest part of the page. Go check out our Community section over on the left, and use it to find out whats going on in your local area. Goths tend to be accepting and open minded. Just turn up to a club or event wearing all black and your already in the goth scene. You’ll pick it up as you go along (just a hint though, lay off the vampire comments!).
The gothic sense of humour is highly developed, and often leans toward the satirical. Quietly laughing at the more idiotic and less tolerant factions of society that seem to think yelling out of cars at us makes them cooler. Goths have learned to laugh at themselves and see society in a much different light. They have had to, and it is a trait most would not give up.
Goths have for the most part (not unanimously of course, but mostly) dropped all forms of prejudice. Noone is afraid within the goth scene to come out as being gay, and noone has to hide their religion for fear of scorn from their peers or zealots wanting to convert them from the arms of Satan. In fact because of these facts (and the general lack of prejudice) the goth scene has a large proportion of gays/bisexuals, and followers of non-mainstream religions and views. This of course is the most important aspect of gothdom, and why most goths became goths in the first place, tolerance.
But they think weird!
Ah, but this is the beauty of goths. Most subjects that are taboo in ‘normal’ society are freely discussed and debated about. Death, religion, magick, mysticism, and many other topics that are only roached carefully outside of the gothic community. Most goths have realised that fear is only a reaction instilled in us by dogmatic propaganda, and once you realise there is nothing to fear from the topic, whats to stop you discussing it?
Goths often revel in the fear given to them by society as a whole. Often the behavior exhibited by society to them based on society’s perception of them from stereotypes, rumour, etc are a constant source of entertainment. Of course, most of the rumours are totally unfounded, goths are people like everyone else, however when you already have a reputation, going for the shock factor is often far too tempting to see how much society at large is willing to believe (or deduce) with only a little encouragement.
This does not totally fall away once you get inside the scene unfortunately, and goths are all too often tempted to try for the shock factor within the scene (which turns out more tacky than shocking). Goths when you get down to it can be a rather pretentious bunch, trying for those extra ‘goth points’ on the gothier than thou scale, but it adds to the enjoyment.
History of Goth
Modern goth (ignoring where the name itself originally comes from) started in the early 80’s as part of the punk subculture (which is itself was a rejection of most societal values, and anything considered part of the ‘norm’). The phrase was coined by the band manager of Joy Division, Anthony H. Wilson, who described the band as ‘Gothic compared with the pop mainstream’. The term stuck, and as punk eventually died, Goth survived and became its own subculture. The punk clothing and hairstyles mellowed, and the core ‘rejection of society’ attitude alone lived on in the gothic subculture. Over time this itself has been modified to be more of a ‘no more blind acceptance of society’s values’ as opposed to rejection because it was there to be rejected (and because you could get away with it!).
Movies such as The Crow, and bands such as the Bauhaus helped establish the gothic image as dark, depressing, and even evil. As more and more ‘dark’ movies came out, numbers in the gothic subculture expanded, and there is now a gothic community in almost every major city around the world, and quite a number of towns have their own representative contingent. Nowdays there are more goth bands around than ever, and it has turned from an 80’s phenomenon into a 90’s way of life for many people. Unlike the punk subculture that it spawned from, there even exists a class of mature goths, still following the scene around even past their 20’s and into their 30’s and beyond.
Well, some do anyway.