Not necessarily. It could just be oblivious insensitivity. People aren’t always aware how their behaviors are affecting their spouses. Once the spouse makes you aware iof the discomfort level, that’s when you decide you either care or you do not care about your spouse’s feelings. If you don’t care, then don’t be married. “I’ll do what I want” is not an adult response to the situation.
Seriously? Now who’s being disingenuous?
It’s not that I like her better, it’s just that I think of her first! :rolleyes:
Yeah, it could be exactly like that. Men, especially, can be clueless about how their behaviors are affecting their wives. I know I have been (not with this specific issue, but in other ways).
Wow, talk about being black and white in how one deals with relationships. Dio, if a spouse is objectively spending so much time with friends that the maritial relationships is suffering, the solution is not to cut of the friends entitrely. The solution is to adjust the amount of time the spouse is devoting to the friends. Whether the friend is an ex-spouse or not is not relevant to this.
I think a sexual history is very relevant.
I’m ok with that,. That at least addresses the feelings of the spouse. “I’ll do what I want” does not.
Some folks are suspicious for no good reason. Some folks are jealous for no good reason. Pity.
Some are suspicious for very good reasons. Some are just hurt, not necessarily suspicious.
In the early days with my wife, I was still pretty young (mid 20’s), and I had a lot of immature behaviours that I didn’t give a lot of thought to. I was in a lot of bands, and road tripped and partied a lot. I would go out of town for gigs on the weekends, and my wife never complained about it, but I woul also just pick up and split for a weekend with friends sometimes even when I didn’t have a gig. I am impulsive by nature, and I would do stuff like come home, quickly pack a bag and say, “I’m going up to Winnipeg with Alan and Kurtis for a couple of days. I’ll be back sometime sunday,” and go out the door.
I wasn’t cheating when I did stuff like that, and she wasn’t worried that I would be, but she was hurt that I would just take off so casually and blow her off for the weekend like that. I didn’t know it bothered her, though, because she didn’t tell me, and I was oblivious to subtle or non-verbal cues.
Once she finally told me that it bothered her (and she didn’t say to stop, just that it bothered her), I dialed it way back, only travelled for gigs and called her from the road (no cell phones then, I had to do it from motel rooms and pay phones, but I called her).
I could have said, “I’ll do what I want, you don’t own me,” but I cared more about her feelings than I did about going out to tear shit up on the weekends.
Anyway, my point is that the hurt can come from the lack of attention, not just suspicion, and it’s entirely possible for one person (espeially men, I think) not to realize they’re hurting the other person’s feelings until they’re physically taken by the collar and shaken.
My wife also had to learn that I do not read subtle cues, and that she has to tell me very clearly and specifically if I’m doing something that bugs her.
Visiting Winnipeg is not grounds for divorce.
Proposing a permanent relocation to Winnipeg is. 
The converse is true too, though. I could say the exact same thing about the spouse who insists I drop friendships. She should give a fuck about not hurting my feelings, and not feel entitled to dictate who I communicate with.
Two people have to determine what works for them and act accordingly.
I’ll do what I want. You don’t own me!
Serously, why is everybody characterizing the spouse in the scenario in such stentorian terms?
I know this thread stopped being about the situation I outlined in the OP a long time ago, but I do feel like I want to clarify that I never called that guy my best friend, and I mentioned how what our friendship looked like at the end was 4 or 5 emails a month. That’s what I’ve been missing, not phone calls or weekends together. (
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I moved across the country about a year ago, and 6 months before moving I broke up with my serious b/f. Now I live in Seattle and he lives in NYC. We talk on the phone every couple of months or so, but he’s very careful not to let his current g/f know about it. The other day, when we talked, I told him I’d be in NYC around July, and maybe we could get lunch or something? “Okay,” he said, “but I don’t want [g/f] to know I’m doing it, we’ll have to schedule it when she’s working.” But, I said, how can I be a threat? I live across the country! “We were together for 3 years,” he replied, “that’s enough of a threat.”
I would never want to limit an SO’s friendships! I also wouldn’t want to be in a relationship where the guy was doing something contrary to what I was comfortable with and just neglecting to tell me about it. Like sneaking cookies from the pantry after bedtime. I’d rather know and have a talk about why it makes me uncomfortable and maybe come up with a compromise.
I do agree that knee-jerk reaction against one’s partner maintaining friendship with an ex, or an unwillingness to compromise about them doing it in a way that makes you more comfortable, would be, to me, unacceptable in a long-term relationship. If my partner was feeling insecure, we could talk about ways to make him feel more secure. I find that most jealousy springs from insecurity, or from a certain need not being met, and that it can often be defeated through a little effort and a lot of communication.
My spouse gives a fuck about my feelings, and so would not out of hand ask me to break off a friendship just because it happened to be an ex. If it was a problem for her, it wouldn’t be an absolute proclamation but a discussion since we both have initially-incompatible strong feelings about it, so we’d come to a solution that worked for both of us.
As opposed to your “mature” model of picking which one gets to be the petty dictator–“She says no, so I drop the friendship no matter what kind of friendship it is” is 100% equivalent to “She keeps the friendship, no matter how uncomfortable it makes me.”
Because people (like you) are taking it from the scenario of “we e-mail once a week” and responding with things like:
YES!! This, right here. Exactly what I’ve been trying to say but much, much better.
And discussing such relationships with your SO does NOT equate to trying to “control” them or emotionally abuse them.
I think the disconnect is summed up here–discussing them is not controlling. Laying down the law and forbidding them outright with no discussion IS. Most of the people in this thread are highly against the latter, but wouldn’t have a problem with the former, if I read the thread right.
Why are the spouse’s concerned being characterized as “laying down the law.” Who ever said that was the scenario? Not every expression of concern is “laying down the law” (unless you’re emotionally 13). No one can forbid you to do anything you really want to do, but if they ask you not to do it, or to do it less, or tell you it makes them uncomfortable, then you don’t have to be a douchebag about it.
This is probably a function of your only having been in one serious relationship and it never having had opportunity to come up, but this particular thing is overwhelmingly (anecdotally) delivered in the form of “laying down the law” for pretty much the specific reasons you’ve addressed indirectly in some of your posts–there are a lot of people who automatically assume “ex who is still a friend” is 100% equal all the time to “emergency spare fuck buddy”. While that’s flagrantly not the case, it’s a common enough belief that it gets acrimonious fast.
There’s also my personal belief that any halfway decent spouse would let you at least give your friend-who-was-an-ex a sendoff of “I’m sorry, but you make my spouse jealous, and my spouse’s feelings are obviously the most important thing in my life”. When communication just disappears without a trace or answer, I tend to suspect law-laying-down.
I was just reacting to the people that came into the thread all high and mighty with their “I can’t IMAGINE telling anyone who they could or couldn’t see!!”
That was never what anyone was saying. No one knows why the OP’s friend stopped talking to her. Certain posters assumed his new SO just outright forbade any contact and were quick to proclaim how they would never engage in such immature behavior.
The other side responded by saying it’s not unusual to feel uncomforatable with your SO maintaining a close relationship with their ex, which resulted in dozens of responses from people who are friends with their exes, maintaining that is is immature to put any kind of restraints on such a relationship.
At some point, the two sides began to discuss seperate things. One side is saying one SO should respect the feelings of the other with respect to relationships with exes. The other is equating forbidding ones SO from seeing anyone with emotional abuse.
I’m pretty sure just about everyone here would agree on some middle ground.
No, I do, his wife asked him to stop being my friend. I think I mentioned that in the OP. Whether she did it at the end of a calm and rational discussion about me or if she laid down the law, I just don’t know. I have no reason to lean in either direction there. Probably some gray area in between. 